What is Karma? How does it work?

What is Karma? How does it work?

I searched back a year and found a number of Karma threads, but they all seem to start with the assumption of what Karma means, and then want to discuss the hows of how to manipulate it, raise it, lower it, resolve it, etc.

It seems to me some tend to view Karma as a sort of automated cosmic department of corrections where crimes are recorded and punishment extracted sooner or later, even if it takes a few reincarnations to catch up to one. This is the crime and punishment sort of Karmic interpretation.

Others seem to view it as more of a cosmic university where you just keep taking the same classes over and over until you pass and move on to another. Perhaps one day you graduate from the school of Samsara, and move on to Nirvana. This is the ignorance and learning sort of Karmic interpretation.

What do you think? What is Karma supposed to mean? What does it mean to you?
Do you think you can detect Karma working in your life?
Are there any particular Karmas that you have resolved, either through punishment or learning?

Here's an explanation from the Hindu perspective bookmarked at the pertinent point of the lecture. https://youtu.be/-rgNWIeF9Qo?t=1010

Swami Sarvapriyananda speaks on Karma Yoga at a retreat on the Four Yogas. This is part 1 of the lecture on Karma Yoga.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Here's an explanation from the Hindu perspective bookmarked at the pertinent point of the lecture. https://youtu.be/-rgNWIeF9Qo?t=1010

Swami Sarvapriyananda speaks on Karma Yoga at a retreat on the Four Yogas. This is part 1 of the lecture on Karma Yoga.

What is the purpose of the Karma described by the Swami?

How would one be forced to do something bad and therefor escape the moral implications and resulting Karma? That is to say, when is there truly no choice involved for the conscious moral actor?

If I built up a deficit of bad Karma in past lives though evil deeds, must I pay it all off, or is there a way in which such debt would be forgiven?

Originally Posted by ketzer

What is the purpose of the Karma described by the Swami?

How would one be forced to do something bad and therefor escape the moral implications and resulting Karma? That is to say, when is there truly no choice involved for the conscious moral actor?

If I built up a deficit of bad Karma in past lives though evil deeds, must I pay it all off, or is there a way in which such debt would be forgiven?

In essence the only way to escape Karma is through Enlightenment, at which point it's fully realized as part of Maya, part of the illusion.

The approach I take is that of a Jnani (I Am Self / Witness Consciousness) and therefore I practice Karma Yoga as Witness of action and not doer of action. Mind acts and body acts and I am Awareness simply witnessing said action.That's not to say I'm at a point where I'm resting in that state of Awareness 24x7, however I practice as often as I remember and it also dovetails nicely with my two other main practices of Jnana (knowledge) and Raja (resting in awareness/do nothing meditation).

All three practices leverage and build on what I already realized. It's a work in progress.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

In essence the only way to escape Karma is through Enlightenment, at which point it's fully realized as part of Maya, part of the illusion.

The approach I take is that of a Jnani (I Am Self / Witness Consciousness) and therefore I practice Karma Yoga as Witness of action and not doer of action. Mind acts and body acts and I am Awareness simply witnessing said action.That's not to say I'm at a point where I'm resting in that state of Awareness 24x7, however I practice as often as I remember and it also dovetails nicely with my two other main practices of Jnana (knowledge) and Raja (resting in awareness/do nothing meditation).

All three practices leverage and build on what I already realized. It's a work in progress.

Is there still free will there?

Is it just a matter of realizing one is watching the TV and not fooling oneself into believing they are the main character?

Though I must say, it does sound like a good way out of my karma. Perhaps I will sneak in and grab a piece of Ms. H's triple chocolate cake (maybe the whole thing) and wolf it down, washing it down with one of her martinis. If she becomes angry I shall tell her I witnessed the actions, but I was not the doer.
This Jnani sounds like I can have my cake and eat it too. If anyone objects, I will just change the channel

[lemex]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Is there still free will there?

So true, but keep in mind free will is potential and so always exists, QM. Also, realize, free will in not needed to live.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Is there still free will there?

Is it just a matter of realizing one is watching the TV and not fooling oneself into believing they are the main character?

Though I must say, it does sound like a good way out of my karma. Perhaps I will sneak in and grab a piece of Ms. H's triple chocolate cake (maybe the whole thing) and wolf it down, washing it down with one of her martinis. If she becomes angry I shall tell her I witnessed the actions, but I was not the doer.
This Jnani sounds like I can have my cake and eat it too. If anyone objects, I will just change the channel

Methinks that would present a problem.

Material reductionists might suggest both consciousness and free will are illusory. I even tend to agree if viewed just from the perspective of body and mind as they are of nature. That being said I also disagree because ultimately consciousness is not illusory but fundamental and it's only Its reflection in mind that's seemingly illusory.

If one can rest in that ultimate perspective therein lies the potential of actual free will, navigating body and mind through apparent/transactional reality and unselfishly so, which as I see it is the foundation of morality and ethics. In this light there will be no midnight requisitioning of Miss H's gustatory delights. LOL!

[Busby]

For me karma doesn't exist.
How could it.
Where and what is the 'mechanism' that oversees or manages the extremely complicated links, processes and procedures that form a result?
If you accept karma then you'll will have to agree to a number of exclusively karmic (as opposed to accidents, which apparently don't exist if karma does) small to large events in the world, say the sinking of the Titanic.
If you are going to use the Titanic as a result of karma and then investigate what it needs to fulfil any karmic happening involving the Titanic then you'll be faced with a whole series of impossible to explain presumptions, conjectures and hypothesis.
In other words to complete the karmic repercussions gathered or earned by those people (whether afterwards dead or alive) on that ship the karmic master or planner - whoever that might be would have to start planning very early.
'His' first step would have to be to get someone to decide to build a suitable ship, then he'd have to think about getting a maybe not even existing ice-mass to calve an iceberg at the right time to be in the right place at the right time with all those individuals who 'he' has decided should live out the results of their actions. 'He'd' also have to ensure that all those 'called' booked their passages and that their cabins (for instance) were in the right position for the karmic outcome.

It never ends.

It would also mean that there is such a thing as destiny - and that is the last thing we want when we talk of freedom - especially when we talk of free will. Free will has to be open-ended otherwise it isn't free will.

No, the world is full of co-incidences and accidents, always was and always will be.

The real actions (as acknowledged as being intrinsic to karma) are those actions which take place in the process of evolution and are so carried over as part of the universal mind.

Originally Posted by Busby

For me karma doesn't exist.
How could it.
Where and what is the 'mechanism' that oversees or manages the extremely complicated links, processes and procedures that form a result?
If you accept karma then you'll will have to agree to a number of exclusively karmic (as opposed to accidents, which apparently don't exist if karma does) small to large events in the world, say the sinking of the Titanic.
If you are going to use the Titanic as a result of karma and then investigate what it needs to fulfil any karmic happening involving the Titanic then you'll be faced with a whole series of impossible to explain presumptions, conjectures and hypothesis.
In other words to complete the karmic repercussions gathered or earned by those people (whether afterwards dead or alive) on that ship the karmic master or planner - whoever that might be would have to start planning very early.
'His' first step would have to be to get someone to decide to build a suitable ship, then he'd have to think about getting a maybe not even existing ice-mass to calve an iceberg at the right time to be in the right place at the right time with all those individuals who 'he' has decided should live out the results of their actions. 'He'd' also have to ensure that all those 'called' booked their passages and that their cabins (for instance) were in the right position for the karmic outcome.

It never ends.

It would also mean that there is such a thing as destiny - and that is the last thing we want when we talk of freedom - especially when we talk of free will. Free will has to be open-ended otherwise it isn't free will.

No, the world is full of co-incidences and accidents, always was and always will be.

The real actions (as acknowledged as being intrinsic to karma) are those actions which take place in the process of evolution and are so carried over as part of the universal mind.

I view it in a more general sense as in if one believes the game is real and plays it accordingly then one is trapped in the game and will experience its consequences, both good and bad. It's not necessarily a tit for tat cause and effect but a cause and effect in a more general sense. Let's not forget the ultimate outcome of any round of the game is death and no amount of good karma can circumvent that outcome just like no amount of bad karma will deny re-entry into the next round of the game, however I suppose it's possible previous karma can dictate in a general sense the trajectory of one's experiences in any given round of the game.

In any case it's just a model and its prescriptions are meant to get one out of the game, to transcend the game.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

In any case it's just a model and its prescriptions are meant
to get one out of the game, to transcend the game.

Yup.

Johnathanrs - you said some great stuff... I'm letting you all do the work I sit back and agree.