Non duality and Islam

[mary isaak]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

What is taught to the devotional masses, however, can be used eventually as a stepping stone to that which lies beyond it all.

In this one sentence you solved a conflict (spirituality vs religion) I had in my mind for years. Always viewed spirituality as the ultimate path but I could not understand why religion is there. Thank you so much

[Rishi27]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 6 EXCERPT:What is taught to the devotional masses, however, can be used eventually as a stepping stone to that which lies beyond it all.

If that is your experience.i tend to disagree, with anything faith based. It is like the blind, leading the blind.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

thank you for explaining why Hallaj was executed. I read some of his writings and I could not understand why they accused him of blasphemy. His writings seemed to be very aligned with Koran.

Thank you for explaining what Ibn Arabi Fusus is about..... I think this book is for the people who are well advanced in the path of Truth.

Hallaj is a very interesting Sufi mystic. His statement "I AM the Truth" was considered by many to be blasphemous since it was interpreted to be a claim to divinity; others interpreted it differently as a reference to the annihilation of the ego after which God works through the human instrument (non-duality essentially as one becomes one with the Reality). He was eventually crucified and brutally tortured but nonetheless forgave his tormentors in Jesus-like manner. That is why he is often called the Sufi Jesus. Hallaj reportedly consulted with the Sufi Master Janayd who advised him to tone it down as the masses were not ready for him and predicted that he would end up on the gibbet (crucifixion). Like Jesus, Hallaj seemed to know exactly what he was doing. In Sufi Chronicles, it is also said that he performed miracles while in prison to show that he could escape if he chose to do so, but realized that his intention/destiny was to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hallaj

As for Ib'n Arabi's Fustus, it's an interesting work but, after a group study, I did not find it compelling enough to continue. He has chapters dedicated to the various prophets in the Koran and quotes extensively from the Koran. Given a particular prophet, he describes how the people of that time thought about God. He then progresses to how people at the time of Mohammed thought about God. He then progresses to how people of his own time thought about God at which point he introduces some very wise non-duality statements. Of course, no one really knows what is in the mind of others at any point in history so many believe that his book is directed to US (the reader) and he thus directs his focus to people even today who hold certain beliefs and are encountering some very common obstacles to enlightenment. He seems to try to preach to people at all levels with the non-duality statements being directed to the wisest. In any case, he avoids any conflicts with religious authorities with his tactful way of using Koranic quotes. The Fustus is considered to be one of his prime works but, considering other information available today, I wouldn't particularly recommend it. One critic wrote that it was NOT one of his more lucid works as far as current readers are concerned.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Rishi27

If that is your experience.i tend to disagree, with anything faith based. It is like the blind, leading the blind.

The Sufi Master Hazrat Inayat Khan once said: "The ideal is the means; breaking it is the goal".

If devotional people can truly surrender to their spiritual ideal, they can enter the stillness of non-duality by quieting the mind and listening instead of petitioning, praising, and thanking. The devotional ideals and even some of the rituals can prepare them for the depths ... after which they leave the metaphorical "raft" behind. Even the blind following the blind can eventually realize that something doesn't resonate... if they are truly intensely sincere seekers. At that point, they can break free of the blind faith syndrome as they start to have direct experiences.

As Ramakrishna once said, "One Truth ... many paths". One shoe does not fit all.

[Miss Hepburn]

Please remember the Admins requested 2-3 sentences when quoting others.
Thanks.

[mary isaak]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Hallaj is a very interesting Sufi mystic...

Thank you so much for explaining Hallaj life, it is very interesting

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

As for Ib'n Arabi's Fustus, it's an interesting work but...

Thank you very much for the informative explanation of Ibn Arabi Futsus. As you said, it is not recommended for current readers. Maybe I can start with Ibn Arabi's ''Know yourself''. It was recommended by Teacher Rupert Spira in one of his videos.

[Rishi27]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The Sufi Master Hazrat Inayat Khan once said: "The ideal is the means; breaking it is the goal".

If devotional people can truly surrender to their spiritual ideal, they can enter the stillness of non-duality by quieting the mind and listening instead of petitioning, praising, and thanking. The devotional ideals and even some of the rituals can prepare them for the depths ... after which they leave the metaphorical "raft" behind...

Beautiful.well spoken

[Miss Hepburn]

Please rem 2-3 sentences only when quoting others, as per Admin's request.

[Rishi27]

Well, it is hard to view a oppressive believe system, as non dual. It just show that the teacher and the ones being taught, are at two completely different states.

But what can the awakend non-dual person do? That person can not just, abide to false facts, because it pleases the masses.

People are making their teachers fit in to their religions, instead of fitting the religion in to the teachings.

Also take Jesus. He was not a Christian, he was not a part of any movement. Now people has taken it up, and put it in to a box, called christianity. Same with buddhism.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

In this one sentence you solved a conflict (spirituality vs religion) I had in my mind for years. Always viewed spirituality as the ultimate path but I could not understand why religion is there.

Indeed. We humans are all at different stages of development, rather like young people at school. There are kindergartens, primary schools, middle schools, high schools and universities. What is taught in one level is not appropriate for those at different levels.

So in religions we find exoteric teachings for the general mass of people, providing guidelines on how to live and how to behave. Then there are esoteric teachings, taught to those who are more advanced. This is the more spiritual side of religion and this is where the ideals of different religions begin to converge.

Even in the Christian Bible there are references to yogic practices which would not be apparent to the average Christian. For example, Aaron's rod becoming a serpent - we can consider the rod as the spine and the serpent is the kundalini energy rising up the spine.

Peace