Non duality and Islam

[mary isaak]

Hi, I think real islamic teachings are very close to the non dual understanding. Any ideas on this ?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

Hi, I think real islamic teachings are very close to the non dual understanding. Any ideas on this ?

One of my favorite quotes from the Quran is Surah 57-3, which does seem to suggest non-duality.
https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/57/3/

[mary isaak]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

One of my favorite quotes from the Quran is Surah 57-3, which does seem to suggest non-duality.

Thanks for the link Still_Waters, I ve read this verse many times before, but never noticed that it was about non duality. Soo interesting, Thanks!

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

Hi, I think real islamic teachings are very close to the non dual understanding. Any ideas on this ?

How do we define real Islamic teachings? For me, Sufism is the real heart of Islam. And in Sufism we find the concept of Wahdat al-Wujud.

From Wikipedia:

Ibn Arabi's doctrine of wahdat ul wujud focuses on the esoteric reality of creatures instead of exoteric dimension of reality. Therefore he interprets that wujud is one and unique reality from which all reality derives. The external world of sensible objects is but a fleeting shadow of the Real (al-Haq), God. God alone is the all embracing and eternal reality. ... To call wujud or Real Being "one" is to speak of the unity of the Essence.

Peace

[mary isaak]

Originally Posted by iamthat

How do we define real Islamic teachings? For me, Sufism is the real heart of Islam. And in Sufism we find the concept of Wahdat al-Wujud....

Soo interesting, yes I see Sufism as truly the heart of Islam, thank you for the reference about Ibn Arabi . However, the mainstream understanding of Islam today is very dualistic, although a big part of Quran is talking about Oneness. And, Quran considers shirk [multiplicity], usually translated as associating partners to God, as the major and unique error. It was very confusing for me until I found the teachings about Non-duality.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 4 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

Ibn Arabi's doctrine of wahdat ul wujud focuses on the esoteric reality of creatures instead of exoteric dimension of reality. Therefore he interprets that wujud is one and unique reality from which all reality derives.

However, in his Fustus, Ibn Arabi had to be very careful in what he wrote considering the fate of the Sufi Hallaj, who proclaimed "I AM the Truth" and was executed. (Hallaj is often called the Sufi Jesus for obvious reasons with a similar fate.)

Ibn Arabi pointed carefully to non-duality by quoting the Koran and interpreting it in his own unique style lest he suffer the fate of Hallaj.

[mary isaak]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

... considering the fate of the Sufi Hallaj, who proclaimed "I AM the Truth" and was executed. (Hallaj is often called the Sufi Jesus for obvious reasons with a similar fate.)

I see, thank you for explaining why Hallaj was executed. I read some of his writings and I could not understand why they accused him of blasphemy. His writings seemed to be very aligned with Koran.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

However, in his Fustus, Ibn Arabi ...
Ibn Arabi pointed carefully to non-duality by quoting the Koran and interpreting it in his own unique style lest he suffer the fate of Hallaj.

Thank you for explaining what Ibn Arabi Fusus is about. I tried to read it but I could not understand anything. I think this book is for the people who are well advanced in the path of Truth.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

thank you for explaining why Hallaj was executed. I read some of his writings and I could not understand why they accused him of blasphemy. His writings seemed to be very aligned with Koran.

Thank you for explaining what Ibn Arabi Fusus is about..... I think this book is for the people who are well advanced in the path of Truth.

Hallaj is a very interesting Sufi mystic. His statement "I AM the Truth" was considered by many to be blasphemous since it was interpreted to be a claim to divinity; others interpreted it differently as a reference to the annihilation of the ego after which God works through the human instrument (non-duality essentially as one becomes one with the Reality). He was eventually crucified and brutally tortured but nonetheless forgave his tormentors in Jesus-like manner. That is why he is often called the Sufi Jesus. Hallaj reportedly consulted with the Sufi Master Janayd who advised him to tone it down as the masses were not ready for him and predicted that he would end up on the gibbet (crucifixion). Like Jesus, Hallaj seemed to know exactly what he was doing. In Sufi Chronicles, it is also said that he performed miracles while in prison to show that he could escape if he chose to do so, but realized that his intention/destiny was to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hallaj

As for Ib'n Arabi's Fustus, it's an interesting work but, after a group study, I did not find it compelling enough to continue. He has chapters dedicated to the various prophets in the Koran and quotes extensively from the Koran. Given a particular prophet, he describes how the people of that time thought about God. He then progresses to how people at the time of Mohammed thought about God. He then progresses to how people of his own time thought about God at which point he introduces some very wise non-duality statements. Of course, no one really knows what is in the mind of others at any point in history so many believe that his book is directed to US (the reader) and he thus directs his focus to people even today who hold certain beliefs and are encountering some very common obstacles to enlightenment. He seems to try to preach to people at all levels with the non-duality statements being directed to the wisest. In any case, he avoids any conflicts with religious authorities with his tactful way of using Koranic quotes. The Fustus is considered to be one of his prime works but, considering other information available today, I wouldn't particularly recommend it. One critic wrote that it was NOT one of his more lucid works as far as current readers are concerned.

[mary isaak]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Hallaj is a very interesting Sufi mystic...

Thank you so much for explaining Hallaj life, it is very interesting

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

As for Ib'n Arabi's Fustus, it's an interesting work but...

Thank you very much for the informative explanation of Ibn Arabi Futsus. As you said, it is not recommended for current readers. Maybe I can start with Ibn Arabi's ''Know yourself''. It was recommended by Teacher Rupert Spira in one of his videos.

[Rishi27]

Well, it is hard to view a oppressive believe system, as non dual. It just show that the teacher and the ones being taught, are at two completely different states.

But what can the awakend non-dual person do? That person can not just, abide to false facts, because it pleases the masses.

People are making their teachers fit in to their religions, instead of fitting the religion in to the teachings.

Also take Jesus. He was not a Christian, he was not a part of any movement. Now people has taken it up, and put it in to a box, called christianity. Same with buddhism.