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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #111  
Old 21-01-2021, 04:07 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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This vid. is for libbyscorp if you wander this way.
Or anyone who cares to listen.
Oren Lyons is a faithkeeper of the Turtle Clan, Onondaga Council of Chiefs, Haudenosaunee
(Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy).(1:11.29 long.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbwSwUMNyPU
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  #112  
Old 22-01-2021, 03:51 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
Yes, I agree.
I hesitated using it that way. I decided to live dangerously that day. LOL
I was relating it as an example, but they are totally different.
Though, I cannot speak to how different or how much they
have in common. I have never walked in eithers shoes.

Arvol calls himself chief as a title.

Heh, just one word can become like a minefield.
For some the word “chief” is just a language difference, for others it represents a fundamental difference between Western and Indigenous thought.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
This vid. is for libbyscorp if you wander this way.
Or anyone who cares to listen.
Oren Lyons is a faithkeeper of the Turtle Clan, Onondaga Council of Chiefs, Haudenosaunee
(Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy).(1:11.29 long.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbwSwUMNyPU
I really enjoyed Oren Lyons' talk.
Quote:
https://ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nat...OrenLyonsz.jpg

Spiritual Law Is The Law of Nature
He said that this Tree of Peace is a spiritual law and represents a spiritual law and the spiritual law is the law of Nature. He told us explicitly, Never challenge this law because you cannot prevail. You will not prevail; wrap your laws, your rules, and your conduct. He said, You, the leaders, when you’re weak as a human being, he said, this tree will give your spine strength. Wrap yourself around this tree because it’s powerful. Do not challenge the laws of Nature because you cannot, you will not, prevail.
Ok. This is very familiar. The World Tree or the World Pole with Eagle on top. Centre and a circle. In the circle diversity, at the centre nonduality.
Egolessness serving the welfare of All Life is how Spiritual Elder leads by example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxNyNWFvZw

***

When Amerinds talk about “Europeans”, they do not seem to realize they are talking about or are describing the Indo-European ways and perspectives.

Original/Aboriginal Europeans were hunter-gatherers.

Agriculture and the beginnings of animal husbandry came into Europe with Near Eastern migrants seeking new lands to cultivate since they had turned the Fertile Crescent into a desert:

They brought this Earth Goddess belief system with them & this is what people call the “Old Europe”.
Lithuanians are original European hunter-gatherers who embraced agriculture and these Earth-Goddess beliefs early:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k34hXty4iw

Indo-European or Kurgan invasion happened much later and much of the population and the language in Europe was replaced:
https://theconversation.com/european...uropeans-38096

To a hunter-gatherer “The Tree of Peace” was/is the Worldview.
However, it seemed, the Kurgans or Aryans had turned their backs on the ‘Laws of Nature’ in favour of ‘Laws of Men’ in order to rule over Nature and prosper.


So, here we are talking about 3 different Worldviews, the hunter-gatherers, the agriculturalists and the Indo-European Dual:


*

Last edited by Native spirit : 23-01-2021 at 10:11 PM.
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  #113  
Old 22-01-2021, 08:45 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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That's some interesting stuff, sentient.
I think Man is by nature an opportunist. He will hunt, gather, cultivate and build technologies.
All these I think must be done in balance with Life. To sustain Life. Possibly even to better Life.
There seems to be those that see our Grandmother the earth only as a resource.(They do not recognize Her as a Living Being)
Then those that see Grandmother as one of the sources of this Life.(And recognize Her as a Living Being)

Grandmother Earth the Stone Bowl of Chanunpa.(Female)
Tree of Life the Stem of Chanunpa.(Male)
Put these 2 together and put in your Tabaco with prayers and song and we say your Pipe is loaded.
All you need is to put fire to it and the wind (Breathe)
What you pray for WILL happen.(As a Pipe filling song goes)

Please NO negative thoughts around
a loaded Chanunpa, for these to will happen but come back on you
twice as negative. Not you sentient but just you in general. LOL

One of the rites the White Buffalo Calf Maiden gave was the Sundance.
This dance is done under and attached to and around the Center pole called
the Sundance Tree and also called the Tree of Life.

Here are 2 vids of an old man who talks of the Sundance a bit.

15:43 mins. Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwyaME9Ck_M

19:24 mins. Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev7sIq69CDI

Bonus: 48 mins. of Sundance songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S03llgFtMWw
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  #114  
Old 22-01-2021, 10:22 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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A little more on the Tree of Peace. Oren Lyons (Onondaga)
10:00 mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iVziGHPhVw
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  #115  
Old 23-01-2021, 05:08 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
That's some interesting stuff, sentient.
Here are 2 vids of an old man who talks of the Sundance a bit.

15:43 mins. Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwyaME9Ck_M

19:24 mins. Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev7sIq69CDI

Bonus: 48 mins. of Sundance songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S03llgFtMWw

Wonderful videos, thank you ImthatIm.
Such a genuine account of how to work with Spirit and how generous also of him to share the knowledge about the Sundance symbols.

*
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
A little more on the Tree of Peace. Oren Lyons (Onondaga)
10:00 mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iVziGHPhVw
Oh, I had heard of the Iroquois Confederacy, but what a great story behind it.
Didn’t know the Longfellow's poem, The Song of Hiawatha was tied to that story.
Quote:
It is said that “in the summer of 1835 Longfellow arrived in northern Europe intent on seeking out the mysteries of Scandinavia, and in high spirits in anticipation of the romance of the North, but Henry Wadsworth Longfellow soon became disillusioned” …. apart from Kalevala. “I am reading with great delight the Finnish epic Kalevala. It is charming.”
https://sambirrer.wordpress.com/2016...ot-longfellow/
Quote:
The Kalevala, created during the 1830s and 1840s, is based on authentic folklore collected and compiled by Elias Lonnrot. It was the Kalevala that initiated the process leading to the foundation of Finnish identity during the nineteenth century and was, therefore, one of the crucial factors in the formation of Finland as a new nation in the twentieth century.
Because Elias was Finnish and Finland was an agricultural society which for a long time had been under Swedish rule and Kalevala poems mainly came from Viena, “Russian Karelia”,
http://www.juminkeko.fi/viena/taustaa/pieni_kartta.jpg
…. from original hunter-gatherer and shamanic people – Lonnrot did not have the mind-set to understand them and left a lot out as unsuitable for publication.

The two mind-sets:
https://images.cdn.tiede.fi/MKFq2Hwz...?itok=X2DaScbx

But thank goodness for this:
https://finland.fi/arts-culture/alte...in-the-making/

*

P.S. I just learned this:
Quote:
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....ticle/hiawatha
The story of Hiawatha should not be confused with the popular poem by Henry Wordsworth Longfellow, The Song of Hiawatha (1885). While Longfellow references Hiawatha, the poem’s focus is actually an Algonquian cultural hero, Nanabozho. Whether this was an intentional or accidental error, Longfellow’s poem confused the history of Hiawatha.

*

Last edited by sentient : 23-01-2021 at 05:50 PM.
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  #116  
Old 23-01-2021, 07:12 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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sentient

Your two mind-sets picture reminded me where my thinking was at.

I had heard it told that the pilgrims were taught how to farm/cultivate
by using Native agriculture, especially the Three sisters system.
Corn/Squash/Beans.



So a hunter gather society teaching an agricultural/industrial society to survive by farming.
What?
So me thinks to just separate the two is not so simple.
Me thinks the mind sets are:
1. Receiving in Thanksgiving from Earth/Grandmother living in balance with Her.(Ours)Mitakuye Oyasin
2. Taking from Earth/dirt as a consumer and conqueror, seeing the Earth as something to subdue.(Mine) My God given right to Takeey and conquer in the Name of the Lord. Foolishness.

P.S. And the Bear probably taught the three sister method to the people.
Bear is the Chief teacher of the Plants and Herbal Medicines. eh?
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  #117  
Old 23-01-2021, 08:32 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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A message from John Trudell on becoming a human being.

19:00 mins.or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=180vRsMmqNI

And a song: John Trudell: The cleansing (Red Earth song).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rYxUjedmNM
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  #118  
Old 23-01-2021, 09:15 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Some more John Trudell (And Quiltman singing backup and drum)
From His albulm: But This isn't El Salvador.


Song of the Trees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdip-Far6Cs

The newspaper stand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haa2uV_1atQ
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  #119  
Old 23-01-2021, 10:04 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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Please be careful of how many Links you post


Namaste
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  #120  
Old 24-01-2021, 12:38 AM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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I remember last time. Native Spirit
Which leads me to say I hate to put you in this position again.

You specifically told me I should not do what I just did.
My bad.
I get carried away. LOL

I am here to better my writing skills, so I guess I will
try harder to accomplish my goals. Links are kind of cheating for me.

Thanks for putting me back on track.
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Last edited by ImthatIm : 24-01-2021 at 01:54 AM.
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