Reincarnation

Hi guys. Just a question (or two) about something I really don't know much about. I do like a lot of what the Buddhists teach. Please understand I ask in good faith and have no ill will...I really am searching.

Question. If reincarnation is to help us become more spiritually aware or improve us in someway, then why is it that over the last thousands of years (as cosmically brief as that is) that we are seemingly getting worse as a species and where do we go, when the Earth can no longer support us?

Thanking you in advance...perhaps my question is all wrong. Once again, I'm not trying to disprove anything...I just want to understand is all.

Cheers
Dave.

Hi Dave,

I'm not a Buddhist, but your question caught my attention. I think a case could be made with even a brief study of history that humanity as a whole is not worse but rather evolving in the direction of compassion and workability for all.

We as a species are improving incrementally. These improvements have been hard fought for and won mostly by individuals who made great sacrifices towards attaining the ideal of a social order containing more justice, and guiding principles which work well for everyone.

I think if you read up on, or watch the documentaries/movies on people like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Ashoka, Marcus Aurelius, John Locke, John Stuart Mills and on and on you will find that they made a huge difference in the evolution of humankind and they did it for the most part in the face of tremendous adversity.

My latest favorite is William Wilberforce. There's a movie about him called "Amazing Grace". It's so inspirational to me what he went through to attain justice for people who were enslaved. He persisted when many would have given up in discouragement. The movie isn't just inspirational, it's very well produced, exceptionally acted, contains an abundance of humor and is immensely entertaining.

I would investigate a little before proclaiming that humanity hasn't made any progress and is doomed. It may change your pov about what is possible for us in the future.

I'll let someone else address reincarnation for you.

[Samana]

Hi Dave,

Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation - that's a Tibetan Buddhist belief. Others believe in rebirth as a result of worldly cravings of one kind or another, its not something created by an external source of some kind.

Alternatively there are other Buddhists like myself who focus on attention and awareness in the here and now and a neutral non-speculative attitude towards the future.

with kind wishes,

Samana

Thanks guys. I can only smile at you inference that I study some more before making whatever claims. I'm to tired to go right into it now, but I wont be telling you that you should do this or that because I don;t see the same as you.
I'm all for peace and love, but I don't think there is any sense in pretending the world is getting better. We are over populated, Society in general is rather quite undesirable, people are developing mental disorders at an alarming rate, Bla Bla Bla......please excuse the sarcasm...very tired...but none the less...these things are in the here and now, regardless of how much we hide inside ourselves.

Just because there are a few inspirational gurus floating about does not mean the world is saved ... as for the remark regarding attitude towards the future ... I like it ... if we all thought like that, then we would not have to pretend there is none...LOL...

It is what it is ... and I'm not afraid to say it like I see it. Once again, no need to make recommendations ...

Love, peace and all that

GOODMORING genteldove & Samana. If only I had a fraction of the positive energy you both radiate so well! Forgive my rather ... hmmm ... perhaps Blinded response. Now don't get me wrong, I still feel the same way about what it is that "I feel", however I did speak first, without having allowed myself to the time I so obviously needed to see past our human imperfections... ... ... ... ... Now to actually see what it is that your saying ...

I’m not sure about the social order containing more justice, nor the results of said Guiding Principles and so on gentledove. Having reread your post, I can now appreciate your suggestion that I investigate further before making “proclamations”. I really don’t think we should question my ability to make a Statement, but rather go into the subject a little deeper beneath the words that are so commonly used to cover up what is really beneath them.
It’s great to be optimistic and I’m all for that, but for all the great and wonderful work so many well intended individuals do, there are certain facts that we have to face up to. Sure we are evolving with our understanding of the MIND and making leaps and bounds with technology that is meant to make our lives do much more bearable … but I think the truth is … that indeed … a brief study of our BRIEF history will show just how backwards we have become.
We live in concrete jungles surrounded by toxic gases. There is always endless debate on the cost of such living and who has to pay for what. Meanwhile those that do have clean air are in desperate need of food and water. Call it Doom and Gloom, it does not change the fact the Nassa has pictorial evidence of just how fast our Earth is Decaying and a brief study of history will in fact show its since our evolution.
Seriously, I don’t think I need go further with DOOM and Gloom … personally I don’t think of it as that term…that term in just one of many designed to brush off the reality in which we live.
It’s no surprise why so many of us our searching and have always been searching … In some way I am just coming to terms with reality so that I can be content in the here and now … No doubt it’s not going to be easy and nor do I ever subscribe to such claims… there is way too much exploitation out there.
To re examine my question … I can see room for growth … allow me to ask it again:

What is reincarnation and what is its purpose?

Hey Search.

I really don't know what reincarnation is. I can only say what I think it does in that it allows me to experience life, living and learning as often as I think I need to be in a material state to do these things. I personally like being in a solid state. I have the ability to "leave" occasionally in another form and return when I choose to eat, explore, breath, etc. I enjoy earthly "stuff". Some day, when I've tired of doing this, I'll move off the hamster wheel.

"I don't know" is great ... LOL ... I hear it might be a new movement. Just kidding OldTimer. Its great to be grounded! I'm only just discovery that fact. I do tend to get too serious at times or lost when I was already on track.

I love keeping fit, or as fit as I can be in order to better experience my awareness/present being or whatever fancy term tickles the spot. I love exploring so much that when I can't find anymore track to Trek on, I'll get lost in a single bush and so on.

I don't know either ... probably best not knowing. I don't remember any past life and even with all the sugested ways of thinking and imprinting that goes on, I can only ever say... Oh "yea I feel like I belong in another time", but whats a bet if I was in that other time, I probably said the same thing.

Of course once can use this scenario to say many things that gives credence to the concept of reincarnation, but whats the point of it all ... I don't think I like the "punishment factor" I have heard with people saying if you do this you'll cam back as that ??? ... equates to Fire and Brimstone to me with all the same judgments attached...all the negatives and control factors with hierarchy and so on...
________________________________________

Living and learning...I like the sound of that...

A very close friend of mine recently passed...I guess this is why I am a little off balance...but then again...I kind of like what is happening to me in as much as my attitude to try and see life for what it really is...LOL...I better go get on with my day...laughing at oneself is probably not putting me in a good light with others............I don't have the energy to make all my posts an assignment, nor need they be.

Take Care Old Timer ,,, hope to catch you on the boards ;)
Peace Out
Dave.

You take care too, "Crocidile Dundee" Dave.
"A laugh a day will keep the seriousness away"
A movement, indeed.

Sorry to hear you lost your friend. You need time on that one.

Originally Posted by Search

Question. If reincarnation is to help us become more spiritually aware or improve us in someway, then why is it that over the last thousands of years (as cosmically brief as that is) that we are seemingly getting worse as a species and where do we go, when the Earth can no longer support us?

Two parts of this that I'd like to comment on. :)
First off, I personally don't think we're getting worse as a species over the last thousands of years. I know a lot of people point to things like consumerism and selfishness and greed when they say things are getting worse, but I have never seen any evidence that this wasn't the case in the past, or that it's declined negatively since. But, this part is definitely a matter of opinion and I don't want to get hung up on it.

Secondly, let's presume that the idea of Buddhist reincarnation is correct, as you refer to it here, and we do consider that humans have been getting worse as a species. If this process of reincarnation is meant to help us evolve spiritually, it's entirely possible that the timeline by which this evolution would take place is completely different than any timeframe we might typically think in. Maybe it's a question of millions of years, and not just a few thousand. Maybe it would get worse, to create more lessons for it to get even better. The idea that things would be getting worse doesn't mean that the evolution via reincarnation thing isn't functioning. It could be functioning very well.