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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > General Religion

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  #11  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:17 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Yes I am aware of that. All the goods we own, all the food we eat.. something died in the process. This is an inescapable fact of life. I suppose 'God' is a killer, indirectly. If 'God' ''creates'' than 'God' is responsible. Alternatively, if 'God' is some kind of 'soul' than this means 'God' took or has need of a 'body' and has to kill as well, directly or indirectly, to survive. Spirituality and various abstractions ((such as ''love'')) allow us to distance ourselves from that, at least mentally, so we may entertain ourselves with the thought experiment that we are ''above it all'' when every action we take in this world shows otherwise. The human *mind* enters its (mini) stages of terror when it thinks too deeply about these concerns, and we have entire traditions and religions worrying over it and trying to 'transcend' it ((i.e. all religions)). What we often may fail to notice is that we got caught up in our own *mind*..
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2020, 07:32 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Yes I am aware of that. All the goods we own, all the food we eat.. something died in the process. This is an inescapable fact of life. I suppose 'God' is a killer, indirectly. If 'God' ''creates'' than 'God' is responsible. Alternatively, if 'God' is some kind of 'soul' than this means 'God' took or has need of a 'body' and has to kill as well, directly or indirectly, to survive. Spirituality and various abstractions ((such as ''love'')) allow us to distance ourselves from that, at least mentally, so we may entertain ourselves with the thought experiment that we are ''above it all'' when every action we take in this world shows otherwise. The human *mind* enters its (mini) stages of terror when it thinks too deeply about these concerns, and we have entire traditions and religions worrying over it and trying to 'transcend' it ((i.e. all religions)). What we often may fail to notice is that we got caught up in our own *mind*..
Not only that, but the very cells our bodies are made up 'die' and are replace by other cells that 'live' and 'die' - 'around the clck' si to speak:

https://www.livescience.com/33179-do...ven-years.html

As do our bodies as 'living beings' themselves - all 'things' must pass.

The 'spirits' than 'animate' living beings continue to live, however.

All this requires consider able thought to integrate into a creatively functional s philospophy, however.

As Paul exulted in I Corinthians: "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

This, of course, doesn't mean that one should simply take the fact of the death of the 'bodies', those of others or one's own as being of no account. The quality of Life on our planet depends on how well we 'husband' said re-sources.

Here, let me just say that the quality of the 'lives' of any animals or vegetable which we 'kill' to eat is much more important (i.e. consequential!!!) , spiritually speaking, than their 'deaths' - also the nature of the 'uses' we put our own bodies (hence the 'deaths' of said vegetables and animals to) while we our own bodies are still 'alive'.
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:13 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim here
Yes we all are, hence we all are creators too. You said many deaths seem pointless to you, but you cannot see everything. My own birth is marked by death ! But since I created a lot of good too. As you did too, no doubt about it.

How could God possibly be in denial ? He created it all, I don't think it was just pokin' around a few buttons and see what goes !

And being perfect does not mean being flawless, it means being perfect for the mission given to you. Perfectly fit for your own reality, and your truths.

Wish you well !

Good points.

Nice to get viewpoints thru the 'eyes' of others.

Thanks for sharing.
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      Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind
     whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.

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  #14  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:16 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Here, let me just say that the quality of the 'lives' of any animals or vegetable which we 'kill' to eat is much more important (i.e. consequential!!!) , spiritually speaking, than their 'deaths' - also the nature of the 'uses' we put our own bodies (hence the 'deaths' of said vegetables and animals to) while we our own bodies are still 'alive'.

David... yes we are killers and all things must pass. Agreed.
As for the above, in what environment we live determines (in part) of how we judge and view species. Not all countries are as successful at farming or as successful at hunting. The environment determines what can be grown and which species are viewed as more valuable. Today we live in a globalized world and when we attempt to decide on a 'general understanding' we risk losing that context. This is why I can't agree with vegans, Hare Krishnas, nor with people that say we should all hunt animals..
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:33 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
This is why I can't agree with vegans, Hare Krishnas, nor with people that say we should all hunt animals..
A. In my view, conscience (in relation to real Life-impacting contingencies) is a matter of personal evaluation and choice in any regards.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:25 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Yes, and a good example I usually bring up is keeping cows and chickens. Maybe bad from a vegan perspective but where I live there are benefits when cows are in the field. The land used to be swamp, then people changed it to farmland in the Middle Ages. There's just no going back to a swamp wilderness ((excluding the few natural areas here and there, where it's feasible to keep for water retention purposes)). This means we need to look for a compromise and cows in a field are potentially better (for insects, wildflowers and birds) than fields with one crop. In both cases animals die anyway, in the former it's the cows when they reach a certain age and in the latter it's a lot of wildlife that gets poisoned (or shot; geese for instance).

There's no perfect solutions in this world, there's greater and lesser 'evils' ((haven't found a better word but I think people can catch my perspective here..))
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  #17  
Old 18-08-2020, 09:48 PM
Luciphene Luciphene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Not many people are aware of this simple premise. That we are all killers. I kill to live. Not in any grand or big scale; but I do kill. I eat food and generally cause casualties in my life. As we all do.

This is one simple reason why I am averse to calling myself God. Or calling myself perfect. Is God a killer? This is a big question and in my opinion He probably is a killer but is probably in denial.

I’m aware and I’m OK with it. I try to make sure what I eat lived well and died fast but....I’m only one person. Can’t change the world. I’m OK with killing to eat and I’m ok with euthanasia and abortion too. Death is part of life.

It’s a complex subject, there are subtleties to take into consideration. I find death very beautiful. But I also sympathise with the bereaved.

Technically speaking we’re all one being, so I’m the same as Ted Bundy, you’re the same as a nameless cannibal from the last century lol. The only difference is I’m making different choices for this body and not violating others free will by taking away their bodies selfishly.

God surely wouldn’t design us to eat meat as well as veg then punish us for killing animals. That would mean God was more than just a killer. It would make him insane! Or her.

IMO causing death is only a “sin” or a wrongdoing when you steal the life of another, or when you do it for selfish reasons. Killing to end suffering, killing to prevent suffering, killing to eat, killing if asked to, etc. All OK by me, as long as the being in question wishes to die, or as long as you need the meat for food!

Very sensitive subject tho, this is just my opinion.
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  #18  
Old 24-08-2020, 01:27 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
Not many people are aware of this simple premise. That we are all killers. I kill to live. Not in any grand or big scale; but I do kill. I eat food and generally cause casualties in my life. As we all do.

This is one simple reason why I am averse to calling myself God. Or calling myself perfect. Is God a killer? This is a big question and in my opinion He probably is a killer but is probably in denial.

When we take a shower, we kill millions and millions of bacteria and viruses.
Same is true when we brush our teeth, comb our hair, rub our hands together, even scratch, etc.

But then, they probably would have died anyways with out a symbiotic host.

We need them as much as they need us.
Can you imagine if they did not exist?
How would we, for example, digest our food?
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      Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind
     whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.

     ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2020, 11:37 AM
Elfin Elfin is offline
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....I think it's "in-evitable" at some time or another...even if we "strive" to kill nothing.... How many little insects do we squash while about , that we don't know about?.... It's un-avoidable ...
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2020, 01:52 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
....I think it's "in-evitable" at some time or another...even if we "strive" to kill nothing.... How many little insects do we squash while about , that we don't know about?.... It's un-avoidable ...

and when it comes to killing, how many that oppose killing really oppose killing such as COVID-19?
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      Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind
     whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.

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