A million ways to cope with depression

[Louisa]

I do believe cynicism is not the answer, but sometimes it's about whether there even is an "Answer". Sometimes there is no right answer and it's all about what works for the individual, which only they can say, based on their experience, since no one can live another's life or find the motivation, meaning, faith for another person..

Actually, with my depression, my husband did that for me - lived my life for me, told me what to do, kept me hanging on. Then he didn't help me much except as a caretaker so that I languished at home but at least I had a home, even if I was miserable and half alive, all I had to do what eat, sleep breathe and keep myself alive, for many years and that is about how my life was, a lot of the time, for years.

Maybe cynicism isn't the answer. But maybe nor is not being cynical the "Answer." Because when people shoot you down, you need to protect from that. You need enough social support when weighed against the shooting you down stuff from others... You know?

What if there isn't an answer at all? I mean,.. So, for example, well, maybe my relative can't be helped unless she is willing to open up her mind, to reach out to others, to try new things. This requires letting go of cynicism and opening to new things, and trying.

But, when you're severely depressed, the will to try new things is a dangerous thing, because there is a chance it will make you feel more dejected when it might not work. Or maybe even have side effects or the effort required to try something might upset the balance in one's already fragile balance.

This might be where my relative is at, I very much suspect. So, in her case, trying to not be cynical isn't so straightforward.

I would like to tell her, "Just try something. You've got to do something in order to get better", but it is like this: A good analogy would be if you're wounded and cannot move. Someone says you've got to find your way to the doctor, but you're in the middle of nowhere with no doctor anywhere close, necessarily. Trying to move might make things worse. It's a no-guarantees situation.

That is kind of like what depression can be like sometimes - it can be like advanced cancer or heart disease, where lives can't always be saved. Where symptoms can't always be very well managed. Where the treatment can seem worse than the disease.

It's a life threatening illness, with no guarantees, sometimes. It depends on the individual, and on what all is contributing to their particular depression. But as it can be very complex, no one knows what another who's depressed is going through, and so you can't tell another adult what to do or judge them, not fairly, at least.

That is my experience. It was so much work, trial and error and hanging by a thread in a pit of total agony, for many years, till 20 years later, I'm finally "stabilized" (not clinically depressed,.. kind of akin to "recovering alcoholic", lol.. Always vulnerable, always on guard, .. And keeping my coping mechanisms in place is like eating nutritious food, it's essential for me in order to keep from falling down into it again. But will I ever not need the coping mechanisms? I don't know, but they're pleasant things, so it's not a problem. They're meaningful and rewarding even when they aren't all fun and all easy street. I don't mind having to lean on these things, and in fact I think I'm so much wiser and more aware and my life is so much richer, more creative because of them.. more so than many normal non-depressed peoples' lives).

[Louisa]

Actually, what I'd want to tell my relative, after more thought, about all the "cynicism" thing, is, this..

It hurts so bad that you just don't want to care sometimes. You don't want to live sometimes. You know what it was like to feel that way, before you had your boyfriend, and you don't want to live through that again. You've decided you're NOT going to put up with it, pretty much, unless you can find a way to feel so much better than you did back then.

Ok, I get you.. I really do,.. I would say to her.

Because I've been that way too. For different reasons, in some ways. I do have more and different support than my sister does (depending on how you define it, because I have a husband but our relationship is very strained and distant, and I have a daughter, but that too, is not so wonderful always because I'm not sure if I can be well enough to always be there for her, because of my mental health problems. And Spirit, that is the HUGE difference between my situation and hers). But, I also have more severe clinical depression, or I did.. I can.. Under the right (wrong?) conditions, it comes back. Without the right coping ways, it comes back. You know why? Because I need love, meaning and social support. I also need the right things to bolster my physical health and brain chemistry balance.

Without that, life and the world feels so dismal. It's like this. The world is a good place, if you're a dog who has an owner that treats you well. But if you're passed from bad owner to bad owner, who abuse and neglect, well life looks dismal and maybe you don't want to live.

Just like dogs need care, people need care too. Sometimes, and most people, absolutely NEED lots of social support and understanding, being accepted for who they are, being accepted for what their needs are, and not having their needs deprived.

But it's like this, say that dog who is passed between abusive owners has special needs? Maybe that's why the owners abuse the dog, because they find the special needs to be angering or tiring and they end up neglecting or abusing the animal because of this?

That's what it is like for some people with "special needs". That includes things like high functioning autism spectrum or other unusual personalities, even gifted people who are so good, caring, and have so much to offer, but their needs are just different, their personalities are different.

Just like most people don't want a special needs dog to care for, nor are most willing to care for the special needs of other people adequately.

So, I think this might be what it is like for my relative and for me. We're "special needs". She has (likely) borderline personality disorder, and extreme introversion and a very unusual personality. I have (possibly) autism spectrum disorder and a whole bunch of likely physical and mental health problems (regardless of the diagnoses, I can see for myself my needs and personality are not what most are willing to care for or accept or support).

[Louisa]

But, I want to tell her:

People are good, they just live in another universe in their heads.

I have been able to find so much more happiness, joy, peace and validation, well being, energy, creativity, through all the different coping methods I have..

In spite of not having adequate social support..

And through the support of spirit beings.. But since you're not open to spirit beings, that's okay. I think you can feel so much happier with all these coping methods, that you will be able to feel happier, better, less cynical, more pleasure, more fun, more creativity, and more, yes,.. Love.. Love. Love.

So much love, for those people you felt so cynical towards. They're not different than innocent children, except that they have learned and grown able to inflict much more pain, but that is just social conditioning.

Under it all, they also care, and are warm and full of love. If you can find how to care for them without expecting them to care for your particular needs, you can feel so much love. They will love you back so much too, but just not for your "special needs".. Only as another human.

So, I'd tell her, you have to have your special needs met, not necessarily through other people, but through your self love, your self care, and maybe if you're lucky, spirit, or maybe if you're lucky, you'll meet other really truly wonderfully, (dare I say superior? ha yes I do dare) people who can meet your needs.

But meanwhile, I think if you will try certain of the coping methods I've found, and keep hanging on and holding on for a hope, you'll have enough hope to live for, to go on, even if life still has much pain and uncertainty. Because I think certain of these coping methods will help you feel WAY better, even if it may take trial and error to find out which ones work that way for you.

And, if I could, I'd tell her, I would be like a mother to you.. Feeding you, doing everything for you, caring for all your needs, keeping you safe and cared for, till you're well enough to care for yourself. Can I do this? Will you let me? Because I need you. I need you because you're the only one who cares for me and my special needs, and accepts them. My daughter loves me, my cats love me, but they can't care for my special needs. I have to hide my feeling and needs from my daughter because she can't relate to me from that level (just like most adults can't either).

That is what I'd tell her.

[Baile]

Reading your posts Louisa, all I can say is I made the choice to let it go and get on with my life. I spent 45 years trying to be something for other people. Then when I was incapacitated, it turned out I wasn't allowed even then to let go of that role. People were still expecting me to be more, to be something I wasn't, for them. And I had nothing to give.

Now in retrospect I see I chose all that for myself. I chose to be their Mr. Bojangles, dancing for the crowd to keep them all entertained. But that illness was the last straw for me. I realized I can never make anyone happy, I can never change anyone. In my case, I packed up my things and moved far far away and started a whole new life for myself, where I could re-create myself, where nobody would have preconceived expectations of me.

You can't do that obviously, but you can let go of spending any time at all thinking about and worrying about how people perceive you. There is a choice there for you. But you have to be in the frame of mind to be able to do that, and with depression, it's always a question of: If you are in fact even able.

[Baile]

Something else... I'm becoming more and more aware of just how much of my behavior is ego-directed. And I'm someone who has devoted years to working from a higher place of awareness.

The wish to be understood, is ego. The desire to "get though" to people who don't understand me, is ego. And expecting someone to be something for me, is EXACTLY what I hated about everyone who did that to me! It's my ego that expects and wants and needs things from people.

These are all ego needs, things I think I need to have in my life, in order to feel complete in some way. And I have tried to stop doing and needing all those things because I refuse to allow my ego and my ego needs to control my life and emotions. I refuse to allow what others aren't, influence and affect who I am.

[Louisa]

I agree, it's so liberating to not care what others think. I am getting better at it, but I still have a ways to go. I care about them, and I care how they feel and how I affect them, so I care what they think in terms of being able to relate and have relationships, but as for caring what they think about me, I'm trying to not care.

Still, sometimes yeah, I think, I need help, need advice, and even though I "should" not care when others tell me that "I am (fill in the negative thing) or that "I need to" do this or that (even if I know it won't work for me), or if they even just don't respond to me, for that matter, and I'm left to figure out my problems on my own, sometimes I just have a hard time with that. I still have to deal with my problems on my own anyway, except that I do have some social support,.. But I just don't have the support for solving my problems.

I guess that I still care about what people say to me because I feel that it programs my subconscious to believe what they say, at some level. I think that if I affirm my own (contrary to their) reality enough, then I'll be strong enough that I can think, no, I don't believe (what they say), because (whatever is the reason, what I believe instead).

And, my other, hm.. "special needs"? I think it's a need for narrow subjects of conversation, and for love. Those things are things that I don't find in others, and it's just not the same if you try to meet the needs all by yourself, at least for me.

I don't have my need for conversation met, because most people seem to avoid talking to me,.. they want me to be the way they are, to talk about the things they like, the way the like to talk (not in lectures like I do). Even when I try, I fail that way. But, maybe I can find a way to meet all my needs for intellectual stimulation and feedback on my own instead. With books, writing, and my spirit beings, and the internet, etc. And, also learning to quiet my mind and enjoy more mindfulness. I think I'll need to heal my brain chemistry for that, possibly, however.

[Louisa]

The need to have love.. Hm.. I mean,.. I do have love, because obviously my daughter loves me, and my family does too (even if they don't help me with my problem solving), and so I really have a lot of love. But I don't have the kind of love that helps me with my problem solving. I mean, I do have some help with that, here and there.

Also, the love that says, you know, lol "I adore you! The world is such a better place with you in it and you make me feel alive. You're the reason I live," lol Because that is a huge motivator for a person with depression.. No matter how bad things are, they know someone NEEDS them and what's more it's so much FUN lol to be with that person, even when you feel so awful about life the rest of the time.

And, yeah, so especially if you feel the same way about the person who feels that way about you. I have that kind of love with Spirit beings, and it transformed my life...

It's not the same to try to "love yourself" because you don't love yourself in that way. ha But maybe in some strange form you could simulate that in your imagination, with visualizations, and create a vivid imagination that went to the subconscious and made one feel loved enough.

I think that is what my relative wants, and the reason that she clings to a relationship. Even though her relationship is unhealthy, strained and no longer filled with love and adoration, more just like her boyfriend says "You've got to spend all your time with me". Not even a lot of expression of love, but it's the closest substitute I guess. Gives her company, makes her feel needed very much. And she and her boyfriend have a lot in common so she does really feel a lot of love for him. There is the memory of when they both were so head over heels.

lol Just pondering, because I think it's good to get to the core of what she really feels that she needs, wants, and why.. I think that it's possible to be so happy and fulfilled without a romantic relationship, but it's "possible", not for everyone all the time, maybe. For someone with severe depression and other problems, maybe it might not be possible, I think. It's all relative.

I like to hope and really feel and almost believe that if she had enough self esteem and good things going on in her life, and physically healed and healed her brain chemistry, she would be happy enough without that kind of love.. But I guess only she can say or choose, so that's the angle I'd present to her, but maybe it's also possible to create an imaginary lover. haha That is believable, realistic enough, but somehow I don't know if she'd find it believable enough of an idea to try. You never know.

Actually, my spirit beings began as prayer and meditation, in which I suddenly had very strange and vivid phenomenon happening that I couldn't any longer chalk up to it being "just in my head". So, if she was open to that, I think that'd be the way to go.. But I think that I have to find a "non spiritual" way to suggest that, if so.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

i'll be brief here (i gotta go do some things).
1-i reckon that the cynicism being discussed is a specific coping mechanism
(had you guys explicitly said that? - sorry i missed it)
no problem. it seems that it'll be a temporary tool though, not a "lifestyle choice"
2-needing social support and understanding seems to be a big issue here.
do you guys think that this issue contributes to the illness (depression), or maybe just a symptom?
3-"judgments" has been coming up frequently. i don't give any value whatsoever to judgments.
discernment is a different animal; that has value.
the only judgment that holds meaning for me is that of forgiveness.
4-

Baile: "I realized I can never make anyone happy, I can never change anyone."

the purpose of relationships is "to make happy"... so, you can make people happy ~ through relating with them.
as to "change anyone", that's not something desirable (nor possible).
humans are self determining creatures, not subject to anothers' will (not even another self determiner).

ttyl, H:O:R:A:C:E

[Baile]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

the purpose of relationships is "to make happy"... so, you can make people happy ~ through relating with them.

My take on that is pretty much the opposite. It's not my responsibility to make anyone happy. My responsibility is to myself, in my case that means being joyful in life, and relating to people in a joyful, positive way. Whether or not they are happy with any of that or with me is entirely on them, I have no interest one way or the other.

Can relating to people in a joyful, positive way, inspire happiness in them? Yes, sure, of course. That goes without saying. And I do that. But again, only because I feel the moral tug to treat people kindly. I don't do it to 'fix' peoples' happiness level.

[Louisa]

Hi Horace, Yes I agree cynicism in this case, is a coping mechanism. I think that for me, and for my relative, needing social support and understanding did contribute to the illness, as well as being made worse by the illness. I think this is more of a factor for my relative than mine, because I had really good, close friends and boyfriends (and later, husband) but even with very supportive relationships, they weren't able to give me what I needed in terms of relating to my deeper needs to talk about and understand life. For me, it was existential and spiritual depression, largely, also that I didn't know my passions and what really made me happy or even when I did, I was discouraged from following them. So I didn't realize if I'd done what I wanted to do from the start, I might have been able to be happier, but school prevented this.

My relative's depression is based upon the relationship needs issue and also upon feeling like she doesn't feel much meaning in life, and is not very happy in her field of work. She however feels compelled to stick with the work, due to money concerns, too. At least for now, and what she really wants to do is something with a lot of risks involved and costs involved, that might land her in a very isolated situation, even more than she is now. So, it's understandable that she might not want to do that now.

I agree that judgment is not helpful, and discernment is. I have trouble however with discernment and so other peoples' opinions blur my own discernment because I don't have enough time, clarity and focus to think and figure it all out, yet.. Something that I'm working on. I also think my relative could benefit from thinking of her own discernment, which may override others' judgments of her.

I think as far as relationships, sometimes they can make others happy, and you can have an agreement to try to make each other happy, but I guess there are no guarantees, so people can change their minds or they might promise something but be unable to fulfill that promise. Ideally, we can have the social relationships that "make us happy", or else, we learn to make ourselves happy. But making ourselves happy sometimes is not possible, if we have depression and unusual personality types that make us outcasts. Very few people know what it's like to be an outcast, and they don't understand the challenges, when your inherent personality makes you unlikable to others, and they either ignore, or worse, scorn you, and close, lasting friends are almost impossible to find.

This is one of those challenges that others can safely judge when they don't have to experience what it's like (just like severe, dysfunctional depression).