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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #181  
Old 20-02-2021, 06:19 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Again, from the link:

EXACTLY!



Yes, the same message.

He also says: “When you are in that space”

The very first time I saw Uncle Bob, was when he was peering into my eyes across the supermarket mall (in Alice) - with a big ear to ear smile.

I *shifted* into that space instantly.

From that shift, I also instantly knew him to be a “Spiritual Elder”, but that space centre viewpoint is egalitarian …. The hierarchy or ‘spiritualness’ is in the “space centre” itself which is above both of us, or above all.
It is both of us – yet neither of us (as such).

*

And for some indigenous person – to make themselves to be the ‘mystery’ or something more ‘spiritual’ than ‘you’ … taking in donations and dishing out ‘blessings’ whatnot … that is a con.
But people believing in hierarchies buy into these cons hook, line and sinker and also insist on them.

*


I think I'm getting a better understanding of egalitarianism vs. hierarchy.
Also why you said something like indigenous elders are not hierarchical like the Pope.
I've seen you reference hierarchy a few times since I mentioned
Arvol was like the pope. I didn't give it much thought, sense I knew what
I meant. I am seeing clearer the difference between what I will put into my own way.

hierarchical= pyramid like with a leader on top of everyone else in their place.

vs.

egalitarianism= Circle like with a leader who has responsibility for the circle.
Remaining pliable but applies wisdom.

These 2 are pretty blurred nowadays and a person does need to be on the look out
for someone wanting to lord over you.

I have a Tlingit friend that knew I made fire and carried rocks for people he also knew.
They stayed at our place one time. He said "I need some yellow cedar to make a staff"
I could tell the staff would be for something important to him.
I told him that I would take him to the mountains about a 2 1/2 hr. drive and get him some from a Old growth
Grandfather yellow cedar that was at least 300 years old and it was already cut and seasoned.
We traded for it from another friend and returned home and once we did, he asked if I would carve it for him.
I told him I would consider it. He then said he wanted me to carve it and then come with him to a
neighboring Longhouse/Smokehouse and teach them people what was what.
I guess he was unhappy with them for some reason.
I then laughed and said "you can carve your own staff and take care of your own business" while still laughing.

At a later visit he tricked me, to journey to the mountains.He said to make fire and make some prayers.
Drink some coffee and sing some songs. We went and the truth was then told he wanted me to make
fire and heat up Grandfather Rocks to do purification lodge for several days in a row. 10 sweats in 10 days
is what we ended up doing.
I was not happy at first, especially since he didn't even have no coffee.LOL
Mainly just the trickery made me uneasy and not happy at first.
But my point is I felt as though he was trying to lord over me and there was never real agreement.
The lines were blurry. I have not made Fire or carried Rocks for him since and he has not asked.
egalitarianism vs. hierarchy maybe but blurry.

I miss him, for sure though since he's a Raven.

Arvol is at the center of a circle because he is caretaker of the White Buffalo Calf Pipe.
So he has Caretaker status and recognition, like that. He is no Pope, for sure. LOL
He is not His Holiness, though The Pipe is Holy.
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  #182  
Old 21-02-2021, 05:58 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
I don't have words, but a video that sticks in my Heart.(Connected)


9:30 mins.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617kv7CM35c


Not just his words but the atmosphere too, as one.
He is speaking the truth imho.

Within the language is the culture. The way in which we view the world and learn how to function within that worldview/order - finding our place in it.

Foreign language brings foreign reality orientation with it and dysfunctionality, because the old values and ‘beliefs’ contradict these new ones.

One of them is this egalitarian vs. hierarchical social order, the celebrated one-upmanship, they call freedom. In a tribal setting one has a collective identity. Individuality is very much celebrated, but only in the context of it belonging to the totality of the tribe.
Within that belonging to totality - is unconditional inclusiveness.
You don’t find it in this ‘foreign order’.

*
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  #183  
Old 22-02-2021, 10:18 AM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Homecoming 5:53 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30oFy9bLnIs


Cultural appropriation????



Me thinks so.
Or
Something else....
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  #184  
Old 22-02-2021, 10:29 AM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Militarism and Native Lands 2:39 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8vBVdhEdi0


I can attest that this is true.
The reservation I live on has a military base adjacent to it.
We have fly overs,fly by's and ordinance being flung shot and or hurled.
We have drone overs and machine guns and artillery firing at all hours.
This is purposeful.IMO
A base to keep Natives to not wander 'Off Reservation' as the saying goes.
I could just say to keep thing in check.
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  #185  
Old 22-02-2021, 10:47 AM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Spiritual yearnings in the West 3:39 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH2tKUusg9g


I find the video so true.
How to keep sites Sacred????
Big question.

You can NOT keep a secret Sacred site Sacred if you divulge the secret I have found.
People love to try and take from the site.
They will even steal the prayer articles to have a piece of something Sacred.

Once there is theft how can that be Sacred any longer???????
It turns Good feeling into bad feelings and sadness. Why????


Do you know what I mean?? Have some respect, stay away.
from things that are not understood.My honest opinion.


I once knew of a site. It was Scared. Now they dug it up and sold off
all the crystals.Now it is just fragments scattered around. But people do not care.
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  #186  
Old 22-02-2021, 11:21 AM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient

One of them is this egalitarian vs. hierarchical social order, the celebrated one-upmanship, they call freedom. In a tribal setting one has a collective identity. Individuality is very much celebrated, but only in the context of it belonging to the totality of the tribe.
Within that belonging to totality - is unconditional inclusiveness.
You don’t find it in this ‘foreign order’.

*


There is a phrase I have heard floating around that speaks to what you have written.
It goes like this: "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians".*..*.
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  #187  
Old 23-02-2021, 05:46 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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I came across something lovely, I’d like to share.

Imo. This relates to opening up, trusting and letting go into That Space of Totality – where Spider Mother has given us all a sentient connection to all that is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj6YVv1Uklg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkOwLDaMUX0

Depending on how one works this connection Spider Web can either ‘ascend’, lead one into Nonduality or ‘descend’, lead one into further illusions of duality.

*
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  #188  
Old Yesterday, 05:41 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Deep nonthought listening (to the connection), works just as well on humans as it does on animals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr_wbGswbwI

‘Communion’ or connectedness can only work on equal (egalitarian) terms.

*
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  #189  
Old Yesterday, 05:58 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImthatIm
Spiritual yearnings in the West 3:39 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH2tKUusg9g


I find the video so true.
How to keep sites Sacred????
Big question.

You can NOT keep a secret Sacred site Sacred if you divulge the secret I have found.
People love to try and take from the site.
They will even steal the prayer articles to have a piece of something Sacred.

Once there is theft how can that be Sacred any longer???????
It turns Good feeling into bad feelings and sadness. Why????


Do you know what I mean?? Have some respect, stay away.
from things that are not understood.My honest opinion.


I once knew of a site. It was Scared. Now they dug it up and sold off
all the crystals.Now it is just fragments scattered around. But people do not care.

Good source to listen to, thanks.

When a rock is said to be sacred – people want to climb it, abseil from it, leave their mark on top of it, take selfies next to it etc. etc. turning the site into an amusement park.

Everything but silencing down and listening to the land, the rock itself (or deeply listening one’s connection to/with it - what it might reveal).

*
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  #190  
Old Yesterday, 08:43 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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I had posted this before, but I'll add it here as well.

‘Listening to our souls overlap’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5HcLFyPkYs

*
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