Originally Posted by sentient
Again, from the link:
Yes, the same message.
He also says: “When you are in that space”
The very first time I saw Uncle Bob, was when he was peering into my eyes across the supermarket mall (in Alice) - with a big ear to ear smile.
I *shifted* into that space instantly.
From that shift, I also instantly knew him to be a “Spiritual Elder”, but that space centre viewpoint is egalitarian …. The hierarchy or ‘spiritualness’ is in the “space centre” itself which is above both of us, or above all.
It is both of us – yet neither of us (as such).
And for some indigenous person – to make themselves to be the ‘mystery’ or something more ‘spiritual’ than ‘you’ … taking in donations and dishing out ‘blessings’ whatnot … that is a con.
But people believing in hierarchies buy into these cons hook, line and sinker and also insist on them.
I think I'm getting a better understanding of egalitarianism vs. hierarchy.
Also why you said something like indigenous elders are not hierarchical like the Pope.
I've seen you reference hierarchy a few times since I mentioned
Arvol was like the pope. I didn't give it much thought, sense I knew what
I meant. I am seeing clearer the difference between what I will put into my own way.
hierarchical= pyramid like with a leader on top of everyone else in their place.
egalitarianism= Circle like with a leader who has responsibility for the circle.
Remaining pliable but applies wisdom.
These 2 are pretty blurred nowadays and a person does need to be on the look out
for someone wanting to lord over you.
I have a Tlingit friend that knew I made fire and carried rocks for people he also knew.
They stayed at our place one time. He said "I need some yellow cedar to make a staff"
I could tell the staff would be for something important to him.
I told him that I would take him to the mountains about a 2 1/2 hr. drive and get him some from a Old growth
Grandfather yellow cedar that was at least 300 years old and it was already cut and seasoned.
We traded for it from another friend and returned home and once we did, he asked if I would carve it for him.
I told him I would consider it. He then said he wanted me to carve it and then come with him to a
neighboring Longhouse/Smokehouse and teach them people what was what.
I guess he was unhappy with them for some reason.
I then laughed and said "you can carve your own staff and take care of your own business" while still laughing.
At a later visit he tricked me, to journey to the mountains.He said to make fire and make some prayers.
Drink some coffee and sing some songs. We went and the truth was then told he wanted me to make
fire and heat up Grandfather Rocks to do purification lodge for several days in a row. 10 sweats in 10 days
is what we ended up doing.
I was not happy at first, especially since he didn't even have no coffee.LOL
Mainly just the trickery made me uneasy and not happy at first.
But my point is I felt as though he was trying to lord over me and there was never real agreement.
The lines were blurry. I have not made Fire or carried Rocks for him since and he has not asked.
egalitarianism vs. hierarchy maybe but blurry.
I miss him, for sure though since he's a Raven.
Arvol is at the center of a circle because he is caretaker of the White Buffalo Calf Pipe.
So he has Caretaker status and recognition, like that. He is no Pope, for sure. LOL
He is not His Holiness, though The Pipe is Holy.