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  #1051  
Old 15-02-2021, 11:01 AM
running running is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Hi Guy's ..

This seems to be the sticking point in many conversations regarding what you are that experiences life .

There are obviously many levels to what we are but fundamentally speaking from the premise that there is only what you are that can encompass all life as we know it .

All of creation as we know it .

Now what seems to be the case in non duality terms is that there is only ONE .

This is my eyes doesn't mean that there is only ONE Self in a way where ONENESS is one dimensional (excuse the pun).

One is the many and the many is one in this regard, that is why there can be individuality while still retaining fundamentally the sameness that is of all things .

Oneness put across in such a way where anything that relates to twoness must mean separation of oneness is incorrect in my eyes .

There is the incorrect understanding of oneness to begin with which creates a premise of there cannot be twoness .

I welcome your thoughts ...

(I didn't post this in the non duality section in order to captivate a larger audience and perspective).

Of course from a hard core non duality standing pointing there is no one here to have any thoughts on this and yet thoughts do come to the fore within awareness of your very self lol ..

Does anyone else find these type of statements bonkers?


x daz x

what we become open to is non duality. bliss and silence. we as individuals are not. yet are all part of that oneness.

in the absorption of bliss and silence it can seem like and would be true to sense everything else is transitory. it does dissolve the mind and emotional body. which is duality.
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  #1052  
Old 19-02-2021, 07:58 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
[left]
Dazza hey there and thanks for your responses! Yes I'm doing better and thanks again for the well wishes. Right back atcha

Re: Source, it's a good question but I cannot explain why Gabriel said that. I always thought of Source as abstract and undifferentiated...and yet it is not what Gabe's illumination revealed, though I never really thought about it till you asked just now. At the time, I was more focused on the interbeing of souls and why things are as they are. So all I recall is that he said that the interrelationship of souls and why they are as they are (located closer to some and further from others) remained a mystery to all but Source.



Hey Panda ..

Just picking something up from another thread about seeing God's face ..or seeing God face to face (or not) be it the case.

Sounds like a bit of a koan in a way, depending on context and perspective because it can be said that seeing God face to face would be like seeing one's own reflection, but beyond self identification there would be no-one to see lol .

It's actually a good line of thought to follow in a way, because there is obviously much of what as an individual we do not know in the immediate .

That doesn't mean that were are not a part of God, and as God is all there is, again, it's a little koan like .

Perhaps we can work with, simply for whatever reason that we are not aware of everything per se .. even though there is only what we are .

Another thing, touching about what you spoke about regarding coming into experience with soul groups is that there I dare say is a difference in becoming aware of oneself as an individual and becoming aware of an incarnation where one experiences life with a soul group -


x daz x
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  #1053  
Old 19-02-2021, 08:04 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
what we become open to is non duality. bliss and silence. we as individuals are not. yet are all part of that oneness.

in the absorption of bliss and silence it can seem like and would be true to sense everything else is transitory. it does dissolve the mind and emotional body. which is duality.


I agree with the first part, but beyond individuality to whom would it seem like?

There is either non duality where there is no individual or there is individual dual-ness.

So what I am suggesting is there cannot be a self identified individual that is proclaiming total absorption of bliss and silence while functioning of this world ..



x daz x
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  #1054  
Old 22-02-2021, 11:42 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
I agree with the first part, but beyond individuality to whom would it seem like?

There is either non duality where there is no individual or there is individual dual-ness.

So what I am suggesting is there cannot be a self identified individual that is proclaiming total absorption of bliss and silence while functioning of this world ..



x daz x
It all comes down to the mind, physical brain, central nervous system, and individual dualness. Individual dualness and being one with oneness/wholeness/non-duality are both mental processes in/of the mind -in other words Individual dualness and (being one with) oneness/wholeness/non-duality are not separate from each other nor are they opposites of each other, they actually compliment each other, so oneness/wholeness/non-duality experiences, entertains, enjoys and expresses itself in physical dual form.

A person will always have individual dualness and a mind as long as said person has a physical brain, central nervous system etc. It seems to me that people try to get around their individuality dualness, which includes their physical brain, central nervous system, mind etc by using their subjective imagination to please their subjective wants, needs and desires, and they give this get around the spiritual sounding word transcendence, transcend etc
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  #1055  
Old 23-02-2021, 12:45 AM
running running is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
I agree with the first part, but beyond individuality to whom would it seem like?

There is either non duality where there is no individual or there is individual dual-ness.

So what I am suggesting is there cannot be a self identified individual that is proclaiming total absorption of bliss and silence while functioning of this world ..



x daz x

your not giving the human body enough credit. i assure you im overflowing in it as i type this. much more so than years ago without the mind. as in a deep meditation.

you just got to get in it 24/7 and see how it transforms you. you can do one thing while the other is going on. the human body can do that. yet it takes time for it become able to.
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  #1056  
Old 23-02-2021, 05:13 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Since we're talking about Self here's a good primer on the views of Advaita (non-dualism) vs. Vishishtadvaita (qualified monism/non-dualism) vs. Samkhya (heavily dualistic).

https://youtu.be/Yej6AY0KNN4

Q&A session lead by Swami Sarvapriyananda at the Vedanta Society of New York on February 21st, 2021. List of questions with timestamps:
00:00​ - Intro
01:51​ - What separates the individual soul from Brahman? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yej6AY0KNN4&t=111s
08:53​ - Can the self be self-aware without mind or object? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yej6AY0KNN4&t=533s
16:26​ - You have said that maya projects the universe and veils the truth. Is this the same as the Samkhya philosophy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yej6AY0KNN4&t=986s

25:50​ - What is the closest concept in Vedanta to the ideas of the spirit and the soul?
39:39​ - Is Advaita Vedanta escapism?
48:09​ - Is Vedanta the same as subjective idealism?
55:15​ - How can I be sure that consciousness is not manufactured by the brain?
  #1057  
Old 26-02-2021, 01:47 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Since we're talking about Self here's a good primer on the views of Advaita (non-dualism) vs. Vishishtadvaita (qualified monism/non-dualism) vs. Samkhya (heavily dualistic).

https://youtu.be/Yej6AY0KNN4

Q&A session lead by Swami Sarvapriyananda at the Vedanta Society of New York on February 21st, 2021. List of questions with timestamps:
00:00​ - Intro
01:51​ - What separates the individual soul from Brahman? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yej6AY0KNN4&t=111s
08:53​ - Can the self be self-aware without mind or object? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yej6AY0KNN4&t=533s
16:26​ - You have said that maya projects the universe and veils the truth. Is this the same as the Samkhya philosophy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yej6AY0KNN4&t=986s

25:50​ - What is the closest concept in Vedanta to the ideas of the spirit and the soul?
39:39​ - Is Advaita Vedanta escapism?
48:09​ - Is Vedanta the same as subjective idealism?
55:15​ - How can I be sure that consciousness is not manufactured by the brain?
The self in the question "Can the self be self-aware without mind or object?" @ 08:53 is lower case.

Sure, consciousness may not be manufactured by the brain, but that does not mean brahman does not enter our physical bodies and animate our physical bodies through our hearts (Assemblage Point), central nervous systems (which the brain is a part of) etc etc.
http://mcb.berkeley.edu/courses/mcb135e/central.html
The assemblage point

The Self-self (atman) is not a collective or a group of Selfs-selfs. The Self is individualized. I am not saying that all Selfs (atmans) are not made out of the same substance/energy, because they are made out of the same substance/energy. This is how and why the Self (atman) is all there is. This takes us back to the subject of mithya and maya:

Mithya means false in sankrit, false in the context of mithya means changing, impermanent, perishable, superimposed, and dependent on something else for its existence (brahman). Maya on the other hand means ignorance. A great statement from the Upanisads asserts, Sarvam khalvidam Brahman, All this, indeed, is Brahman. All this (idam), meaning all we (the Self-self or atman) see with our mind and senses is Brahman, but we (the Self-self or atman) are not recognizing it as Brahman. And this is maya, ignorance, the cause of all suffering. Always remember that atman is brahman. Since atman (Self-self) is brahman, brahman is being conscious of itself through atman (Self-self)

Mithya and maya have nothing to do with the world or universe being unreal or an illusion, the only unreal and illusion is not recognizing everything we see with our mind and senses as being brahman.
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  #1058  
Old 26-02-2021, 07:39 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
It all comes down to the mind, physical brain, central nervous system, and individual dualness. Individual dualness and being one with oneness/wholeness/non-duality are both mental processes in/of the mind -in other words Individual dualness and (being one with) oneness/wholeness/non-duality are not separate from each other nor are they opposites of each other, they actually compliment each other, so oneness/wholeness/non-duality experiences, entertains, enjoys and expresses itself in physical dual form.

A person will always have individual dualness and a mind as long as said person has a physical brain, central nervous system etc. It seems to me that people try to get around their individuality dualness, which includes their physical brain, central nervous system, mind etc by using their subjective imagination to please their subjective wants, needs and desires, and they give this get around the spiritual sounding word transcendence, transcend etc

The very fact that a peep refers to themselves in any shape or form is a dead cert that one is experiencing duality . Where there is duality there is not the entirety of what you are that is simply being that .

The bliss or the Love or the Peace that refers to that cannot be experienced or felt or sensed . It is again, simply what you are .


x daz x
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  #1059  
Old 26-02-2021, 07:39 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
The self in the question "Can the self be self-aware without mind or object?" @ 08:53 is lower case.

Sure, consciousness may not be manufactured by the brain, but that does not mean brahman does not enter our physical bodies and animate our physical bodies through our hearts (Assemblage Point), central nervous systems (which the brain is a part of) etc etc.
http://mcb.berkeley.edu/courses/mcb135e/central.html
The assemblage point

The Self-self (atman) is not a collective or a group of Selfs-selfs. The Self is individualized. I am not saying that all Selfs (atmans) are not made out of the same substance/energy, because they are made out of the same substance/energy. This is how and why the Self (atman) is all there is. This takes us back to the subject of mithya and maya:

Mithya means false in sankrit, false in the context of mithya means changing, impermanent, perishable, superimposed, and dependent on something else for its existence (brahman). Maya on the other hand means ignorance. A great statement from the Upanisads asserts, Sarvam khalvidam Brahman, All this, indeed, is Brahman. All this (idam), meaning all we (the Self-self or atman) see with our mind and senses is Brahman, but we (the Self-self or atman) are not recognizing it as Brahman. And this is maya, ignorance, the cause of all suffering. Always remember that atman is brahman. Since atman (Self-self) is brahman, brahman is being conscious of itself through atman (Self-self)

Mithya and maya have nothing to do with the world or universe being unreal or an illusion, the only unreal and illusion is not recognizing everything we see with our mind and senses as being brahman.

Small "s" self is body, mind, chitta, buddhi, mannas, ahamkara. All objects of awareness/consciousness.

Capital "S" Self is That which is aware/conscious of experience of all objects.

Self is Atman is Brahman is SatChitAnanda and since It's without a second all objects of experience are but name, form and usage of Itself. Appearances of Itself, within Itself and inseparable from Itself.

A statement such as "I am conscious" is the perspective of self (Ahamkara's propensity to appropriate) whereas "I Am Consciousness" is that of Self.
  #1060  
Old 26-02-2021, 07:44 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
your not giving the human body enough credit. i assure you im overflowing in it as i type this. much more so than years ago without the mind. as in a deep meditation.

you just got to get in it 24/7 and see how it transforms you. you can do one thing while the other is going on. the human body can do that. yet it takes time for it become able to.

We have spoken about beyond individuality that refers to non duality .

You are speaking about you which is not non duality bliss .

This is what I am trying to point out to you .

When you say you are overflowing in bliss while typing the reply, it is an individual feeling that you have .

Do you understand the difference between non dual bliss and individual bliss .

You see there is no self identification had.

What you are doing is describing how you feel personally .

That is why you can relate to you feeling a certain way while trying to describe to me that feeling.

That's duality .



x daz x
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