Saying "back, back, back"

[Redchic12]

I personally don’t see anything wrong with desire. The problem is more about how much you desire and is there a balance between desire and being content.

A healthy amount of desire gets things done and makes things happen in this world.

I mean what is wrong with wanting to run a charity for homeless or wanting to get people together to build a better neighbourhood or wanting a more fulfilling meaningful job or looking for a better healthier place for your children to grow up.

All of those are desires aren’t they. Can’t see anything wrong with that.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

All of those are desires aren’t they. Can’t see anything wrong with that.

It's not wrong in the judgy God sense, but we can say there is goodwill and ill-will, kindness and malice, and metta meditation is the deliberate generation of goodwill, so this is a bit of a nuanced area about what arises from the truth of (our) nature, and what comes out of delusion.

In meditation it's more like you can see how you operate in life by avoiding uncomfortable things and seeking out pleasures, and that's the psychologically reactive dynamic we call 'craving'. I merely claim mindfulness involves recognising yourself doing that, and not doing it anymore.

Unfortunately for me, that doesn't sound very special. It's not even fascinating, and the perfume of flowers doesn't float on my words, but since one person's meditation could be uncomfortable and have brutal emotional storms while another's is wonderful energy and blissful, and that could switch the next day, I can't really say 'what it's going to be like', and I'm not saying it's a way to feel good. I can only suggest that the underlying skill is maintaining an even disposition as the one aware while all experience passes.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by In Flux

I'm not an advanced meditator by any stretch, but I found something that helps me to stay with the breath, and I wonder if other people have tried this.

This is a good technique that you have formulated for yourself.

The mind is prone to incessant thinking and emoting which makes it unconscious rather than aware or mindful.

By employing the ' back, back, back' term to focus , you are detaching from the habitual thinking process and coming back to observing the breath and living in present moment awareness.

As I said , this is an interesting method that you have conceived, and thanks for sharing it here.

I will be adding it to my toolkit of meditation aids.

[Redchic12]

Omg so sorry Gem if you thought I was having a go at you, I really wasn’t because I love some of your comments and agree with most of them. I guess it was just my way of expressing myself. It didn’t come across the way I expected it to.

Humble apologies!

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Humble apologies!

No worries, I know I'm pretty tough on desire, and people are always telling me there's good and bad desires, but since cravings are interwoven with intent, it's often about goodwill and ill-will, and rather than their being an answer based on 'Buddha said' or something equally devoid of reason and understanding, it's really about how we can recognise in ourselves the way malintent relates to our aversions toward discomforts in our own body and craving for more enduring pleasure. On the other hand, the loving kindness we call metta is the essence of goodwill, and is actually regardless of our passing feelings.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

No worries, I know I'm pretty tough on desire, and people are always telling me there's good and bad desires, but since cravings are interwoven with intent, it's often about goodwill and ill-will, and rather than their being an answer based on 'Buddha said'

Yes The Buddha did actually teach that there are Wholesome/Unwholesome desires which you can find for yourself in various Suttas/Sutras which you may find helpful. Some seem to use Desires and Cravings interchangeably but they are extremely different.
Desire can be the motivation to do something for the benefit of others like becoming more compassionate, or to serve. Some have the 'Desire' to achieve enlightenment, as did The Buddha. His 'Desire' to help others is the reason we have Buddhism today. That is a very different mind state from the mind state of 'Craving' or 'Thirst' which is like a fever of unsatisfied longing and is is rooted in greed and attachment which is 'Unwholesome '....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

I personally don’t see anything wrong with desire.

Neither do I. If we enjoy and learn from all the Great Masters we can be thankful they all had the Desire to help others through their teachings

[Unseeking Seeker]

In my view, it’s futile talking about ‘methods’ of meditation, be it chanting, breath watching, observer observing observed (both us) or any other form of prayer, satsang etc. Whatever works is fine, the words ‘works’ meaning an offering we receive, feel, within, an expansion of consciousness. Why, the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra itself has 112 meditations as tools, so we’re spoilt for choice. Or we can conjure whatever takes us into silence and surrender of this (mind-body) to That (Self/God/universal consciousness).

Silence too has several layers. Thought rested stillness at a stage when it becomes an ever present orientation, where thoughts simply are not present is attainable. They are of course instantly put to use when required, just like any other body instrument. Tail does not wag the dog.

Desire and aversion is a rabbit hole that goes in deep, simply because even when our attention is internalised and oneness recognised, there are samskaras or carry forward tendencies and habits we cultivate. Also gender plays its role, until perhaps attaining energetic polarity balance* (*an intermediate coordinate in kundalini progression).

The key, as I see it, is to shift from lower mind to our triadic heart, where the life forces of body, soul and God are entwined or we may say the physical, astral and casual aspects of Self. Operating from our spiritual heart instead of mind … no thought, no desire, no fear, no attachment. Yet vibrant, alive, blissful. Oneness known and experience of limitation in duality celebrated. We have the cake and eat it too.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

silence and surrender

Spiritualists generally like ambiguity and and vacuous terms like 'surrender', but I like precision, detail, elaboration and specificity. If I speak of surrender, I will be specific about what it is precisely that we 'surrender'. Ironically, ambiguous references are more popular as they invoke a cozy spirtual impression, whereas my preferred science-like pinpointing of the exact thing we surrender isn't widely appreciated because it leaves very little wiggle room. Some say you surrender to the will of God, but if we dispel the fanciful notions, we realise how that truism implies forsaking our own. I elaborate on the realationship between volition, psychological reactivity and physical sensation. I realise it sounds too scientific and there's too much detail - and that it starts taking things away because they contradict the underlying principle. 112 things become 111, 110, 100, 70, 30, 10, and finally maybe just 1 or 2, because all that entails volitional exertion directly contradicts the precise implication of 'surrender'.

[Unseeking Seeker]

It’s quite simple and straightforward Gem ~ reality: we are in mind-body. We surrender identification of our presence with this apparatus by ceasing thought flow. Without thought, awareness still is, alive and present in the continuum.

The ‘difficulty’ lies in dependence on thought, which arises from past momentum, habit, conditioning. It’s difficult because it is so easy, so natural, that mind negates it. Thought is only an instrument.

I’m not advocating any concept of God, for that too is a thought in mind. What simply needs to be done is be still, observing thoughts just like any other external object. If it’s external, there’s no ownership, we don’t feed it. The object (thought) appears and then disappears. Over time, we abide in a continuum of stillness.

There is no negation. We are, as we are, agendaless yet attentive, poised in the void, if you will. The recognition of oneness or God is ‘seen’ in a manner that is clear and unambiguous. We then know that God alone is breathing life into dust* (*organic form).

The recognition occurs if we get out of our own way, meaning, we abide in our true nature, not in mind. That’s all there is to it.