Satan Doesn't Exist

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

All I can say is that the mind pretty much feels like it's attacking me, creating fake scenarios and pretty much putting me down and causing more anxiety and suffering. I understand that ignoring all this is possible, but that's not taking away the fact the mind is actually a bully.

Another perspective is that the mind is a very good servant but a very bad master.

And how do we experience the mind? Just one thought at a time. Your thoughts are telling you a story, creating fake scenarios. The problem is that you are believing these stories and so you suffer with anxiety.

Who would you be without these stories? Who would you be if you stopped believing your thoughts? You might be a person who is at peace with yourself and your life. So a job interview is just a job interview. A wedding is just a wedding. You are simply yourself engaging in different experiences.

So maybe go within and find out why your thoughts are attacking you. The answer to that might explain why you always feel anxious.

And then you might see that thoughts are just thoughts, arising in awareness and then dissolving back where they came from. They have no lasting significance.

Peace

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

You have heard it before, that the greatest trick that Satan has ever played is
to convince people that he doesn't exist.

I suppose what I was driving at in the original post was that the levels of denial which are possible in a human being who is trying to become
more integrated through psychology or spirituality are big and not easily removed or transformed. Going to Satsang may bring temporary relief and for many
it is claimed permanent relief. Others try skillful means such as meditation or greater service to their communities to transcend their own self interests and experience dissolution
of the self and union.
So Satan represents denial, closed downness and a lack of vision. The egocentric mechanism for survival some might say others would say for self grandiosity.
So I should thank Charles Baudelaire the French Writer who coined the phrase, " The greatest trick that Satan ever played was to convince people he didn't exist."
It is a phrase I would have really shied away from because of Bigoted versions of Christianity so I was very surprised to see that the phrase is full of potential meaning and insight in relation to the spiritual path.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

So Satan represents denial, closed downness and a lack of vision. The egocentric mechanism for survival some might say others would say for self grandiosity.
_

"Most people do not see their beliefs, instead their beliefs tell them what to see. This is the difference between clarity and confusion."
Matt Khan

This is why they call him the Trickster. Satan is the unconscious.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

"Most people do not see their beliefs, instead their beliefs tell them what to see. This is the difference between clarity and confusion."
Matt Khan

This is why they call him the Trickster. Satan is the unconscious.

Good quote from Mr. Khan, yeah that type of thing I was driving at. I suppose the trickster figure can shake the foundations of the seeker and although
it is highly disturbing, the foundations are sometimes the foundations of his own prison cell of beliefs etc . Thanks for sharing. Food for thought.

__________________________________________________ ___________

[movingalways]

Beliefs eventually exhaust themselves.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by movingalways

"Satan" is a belief, "Trickster" is a belief, "the unconscious" is a belief. Every word that conceptualizes reality is a belief and therefore, is unreal. Clarity of awareness is to be belief-free. smile:

Did you write this post on a blank screen ? Just kidding but at the risk of sounding simple or funny (i live in hope) isn't it the attachment to concepts as opposed
to the concepts themselves, haven't I just used the DNA of concepts or building blocks by using
letters to convey a message or have I just conveyed another message using a smoke screen or smoke signals ?

__________________________________________________ ________

Originally Posted by movingalways

Clarity of awareness is to be belief-free.

Awareness is free of belief. It's That which illumines belief. The mind is full of beliefs while awake and dreaming and these beliefs are illumined by Awareness. The mind is empty of beliefs while in deep dreamless sleep and Awareness illumines the absence of beliefs.

Mind does what mind does. Like a lion it can (and should) be tamed but it's still a lion. Aversion to belief is no different than attachment to belief and both are of mind, not Awareness.

Can you have beliefs you don't really believe? I'll answer by saying it's amazing all the absolute nonsense that bubbles up from the subconscious when paying attention. This is the seed of belief and I suppose what matters is how attached we become when they surface. Whether we tend to them like a crop in a garden or try to rip them out like weeds are two sides of the same coin.

[movingalways]

JustASimpleGuy: The mind is empty of beliefs while in deep dreamless sleep

This is true.

Before I expand on my answer, do you want to be free of beliefs during awake time and dreaming time?

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Did you write this post on a blank screen ? Just kidding but at the risk of sounding simple or funny (i live in hope) isn't it the attachment to concepts as opposed
to the concepts themselves, haven't I just used the DNA of concepts or building blocks by using
letters to convey a message or have I just conveyed another message using a smoke screen or smoke signals ?

__________________________________________________ ________

Lol, I wrote my original post thinking the quote was yours and that I was speaking directly to you, but it wasn't so I deleted the content and summarized it in a single, generic sentence. That may not make sense, but its all I've got.

Attachment to concepts (beliefs) can be very subtle. Someone once told me the human mind will fight detachment from beliefs until its last breath and he was right.

[movingalways]

A question for Joe Mc: How is thinking about Satan in any context beneficial either to your mental or to your spiritual well being?