Male/Female: Have I done this wrong the whole time?

Ever since I was little my mom would react that even if she thought I was feminine that when she thought I should have cried or said Please or what ever I would get mad.

Later in romantic relationships I would, if it was not by pure mistake, the boyfriend/husband having walked in on me, to see me cry, to see tears.

I know I resented women who at business meeting (mixed with female and males) would all of a sudden get very unprofessional when caught having done something wrong to start to weep and the guys did not know what to do and it was just so fake, and manipulative. Same women would with pride say that they could get anything they wanted from their men if they just cried. I thought that was pathetic.

I know when I have fought with a partner (romantic) that I will not start to cry and will not say I am frighten even if I am.

As I was to go through counseling I had to explain that when I could tell my husband's temper (the way he was back then, not now) had gotten the best of him that I got to be a little afraid of him. I would in his opinion not continue (which only made him more frustrated) but not say anything more. He would say stop it right there, and explain that to him I did not look a little afraid. I did not look afraid at all. I looked angry. He said that had I told him that I was afraid of him that then he would not have continued to fight with me. That I did not need to be afraid of him. He did not want me afraid of him. When he felt he could barely control himself he would walk out, but I knew he would be back. I was never the one to tell him to leave. I think many of our fights were built up during the day as we did not want to do so in front of an innocent younger generation, but I don't think that built up was good either. He was someone back then who would always take defense, automatically so, so I would avoid saying anything or know it was going to get difficult if and when I did. When it concerned other people he was not like that. It was only I who was a trigger. Even with his ex he was not like that, no one knew what I was talking about that he had a temper. He himself would say that he did not know what was up with him, that he knew he had a temper when it came to me. It only made me feel worse, actually. I would hold back during our fights as I could tell he was always more upset than I was or was to become so. It was not equal at all. Dysfunctional.

I had in a previous romantic relationship with someone have major memory blanks, as he did truly frighten me and I think my stress level was too high up and that was what would create these memory gaps. I would only remember the first breath of him working himself up. I know I made the conscious decision that no matter what he was not to know I was afraid. He would be the first man I would ever know to use his body in a hostile manner towards, to frighten me, I am sure, to sort of warn me, only when and if he did that I looked him straight in the eye and I kept it like that. I did not say anything, but again I was not to show that he had succeeded, that he was frighten me. I was never anywhere near equal in physical strength, and I always knew if something was to happen I did not stand a chance. Perhaps that made me upgrade even more that all I basically had to work with was to not mentally show myself inferior.

I could never start to cry, show tears, in situation where I was in a fight with someone. If any it would come later and then I wanted to be alone.

I would catch signals from the men telling me of an ex who cried, or who it now was, as if they I think wanted to tell me it was OK if I would get like that, only I didn't. To me it would feel so wrong if someone is fighting with me and trying to win this thing, and wanting to be superior, that I would then surrender and show myself weak with crying or telling them I was afraid.

When I was to reveal, before I was able to withdraw and get away, that I was hurt by something my husband had said or I had discovered, that I could see him go from cocky or angry, to sad, worried, afraid. If I had tears in my eyes and he insisted to still be able to see, talk to me (when I wanted to be alone in a room) the instant he saw my tears his eyes would dwell up too.

[FallingLeaves]

im told that is fine. I've always felt that when I try to use what I want to do just to manipulate others and try to get my own way, that is just wrong. Sometimes I find it more important not to have what I want than to go down that road again..... so it is somewhat sane to me to want to be alone at such times rather than try to shake the room...

Yes, thank you, agree with you.

I have discovered through friends and family members (female) that they can automatically (not through manipulation) show tears but at the same time be angry or let down and they are just so relaxed somehow in it all, like it is all OK to show. I mean of course it is OK to show to me but it has surprised me as it is such a mix of all feelings coming through. It must be so liberating to do that, but people say they do it with me around as they feel comfortable with me, so I guess they do not feel they risk me looking at them as if they are inferior just because (and I don't, naturally).

Sometimes it can be troublesome as I can not catch all the words if someone is crying at the same time, so I know of one who said I'm just gonna text you or call you when I'm more calm, and that worked, works too.

Know of someone who came to get me to tell me that I would be the one to get this (what it now was) and when I got to the scene I could tell what my narcissistic parent-in-law had once done to me, had now been done to someone else, who was distraught.

I would later give compliments on how well that someone (who had finally gone to get me) had handled it. I could tell there was so much support, emotional support. That someone too is on the autism spectrum but did not have the defense mechanism my husband (who is too on the autism spectrum) had. Would not call the one who was distraught "So sensitive!" etc, like my husband would do me. Then again this other person was distraught, and dared to feel that, and be comfortable with that, with it's partner (who later came to get me).

In one way I think my husband would say it because he wanted me to be more like him, not sensitive, but it was more easy to be like him as his brain simply would not read off some situations, facial expressions, because of his autism, so he was missing these vital signs and so to him they did not exist or couldn't be that bad.

When he could have an idea of how deep this went, and what I saw coming, and just how serious I thought this was, that was when he no more would use the term "so sensitive" against me. I was right about everything.

I even felt back then that I would not be believed 100% by my own husband, and so when there were other witnesses to all of this I told them to please tell him themselves. He would later say that of course he would have believed me, but it had been him who before had send me the signals he would only do so 50% maybe.

That is how far things had gone and he had belittled and therefor allowing it to continue, and allowing me to mentally suffer, and making me think it was my fault. It was my fault because I was so sensitive. That I needed to toughen up.

He did do things along the way to try to hinder it, and to object but it was as if his heart was not in it. He did not show the narcissist the kind of temper he showed me.

He would be in lack of emotions, as that was his way of always having dealt with this parent, but to me his lack of emotions, him not even getting raging mad or just mad, or even a little mad, about how I was being treated was a sign he did not care about me, and a sign to the narcissist to say go right ahead, she is of no importance to me anyhow. You treat her any way you like and then afterwards I suppose now we're gonna have our little talk, just for show, you're gonna apologize and that will be it.

Not once did he ask me Are U OK? or I'm so sorry that happened to you. How did I feel about what had happened? No it was as if he only wanted to make it into nothing important at all. He would later tell me when I asked him how come he had not even asked me any of that, that he said he felt ashamed. And when he felt ashamed it was his strategy to just move on from it, forget it.

I could see how he would honestly be "shocked", as he would say, as to him it would come as a "surprise", he had not seen all the signs leading up to the narcissist behaving badly, although I could see each and every step very clear. I knew by then that if I was 10 levels down in this, knowing this, maybe others, if I were lucky were about 5 levels, but that I knew and the narcissist knew exactly what it was up to, and so I was alone dealing with someone with one serious disorder.

I was on the alert and would be told afterwards by those I had jumped in to defend that they were most appreciative that I did. Me jumping in or trying to hinder or trying to make the narcissist focus its anger on me instead was a new trick in the family. They were all use to staying out of it and allowing the narcissist to bully each and everyone without any protests from the rest or anyone really. Then I could tell and was most grateful that the others in the family would when I was under the narcissist's attack jump in to defend me.

The one who would not do it, or if and when realizing it would do, in my taste too little too late, was my own husband (!). The others had more emotions to it, anger, and I guess they too could tell that my own husband was not reacting fast enough and strong enough, but they would be dam to let me be treated this way so they then simply "jumped" pass him. They took his place. That too made me think that my husband simply did not care about me.

He would later say that he felt ashamed about that too. He would even say then to me that if something really was to happen then he would say or do something, and I told him were you not in the room when this happened? As if I had exaggerated it? How far was it suppose to go before you said or did something in my defense? You take me to see this lunatic who treats me badly, and you show me you are fine with this? That I deserve this? I feel I was being treated badly, while you think I was treated OK - as you did not even react and said if something REALLY happened, taking this even further, THEN you would react? I told him that I could not be worth much to him, that he must not think I deserved to be treated with respect. I told him the only person you look out for - is yourself. You got some nerve bringing me over there and then acting as if I just came there by myself, you have nothing to do with me, any battle I find myself in I have to fight alone, you pushed this person on me, I don't even want to be there. I don't want a relationship with that person. You do. You took me there.

I would ask him you were in the room so what were your thoughts and feelings as this went on? How did you feel? I want to know. You must have felt something? He would say he did not know, that he did not catch on til it was too late.

I told him I thought he was afraid of his narcissistic parent and he was a coward and he was allowing all this to happen to me, and only glad it wasn't happening to him, and that it hurt me beyond what he could possibly imagine that the man I loved, the man I would jump to defend, would not do the same for me.

That had someone treated him the way I was being treated in his family, in my own family I would not have stood for it and he knew that.

At the same time as he was sending me these strong signals that he honestly did not care about me, in another he was this emotional wreck claiming he did. It was double messages. It was later thought he had a stress reaction to if and when these things happened and that was why he was so slow, and so called shut downs, that I had never heard of before, that people on the autism spectrum can have. It did not exactly make me feel more safe, secured, as I honestly wanted a man to step up for me, the way I would him, the way I was doing to try to protect the others, but at least then I could think OK it is not because he does not care, it is not because he don't love me. It was never the less strange to me as I would watch him do his thing and step in to help strangers in trouble, when others would run or be paralyzed, but when it came to his own wife - he wouldn't do a thing, or very little. It was also the opposite of how I knew him to be still while all this went on as I could tell, even if I did not ask for it, that he would do things for me, and that he thought of me. It was such contrasts. I thought maybe he did it because he felt guilt or that he was still trying to maintain that he was a good husband. I know now these were the things that were easy for him to do, and for him to show his love and his commitment, but even so he was not giving me what I needed. I did not need all these other things, I needed him to be there for me when it mattered. All these other things, sure they were nice things to do and I thanked him, but he took no risks doing them. Then he was safe. But when I was unsafe - he had kept himself safe. And I resented him for that. He had such caring qualities about him in other ways, but what did it matter when he wasn't there? When he was in the room - but he was gone? And I needed him.

What ever the narcissistic parent has done to me is little in comparison to how the hurt was over what my husband did, or should I say, not do. It was hard too for him to hear that as he could tell I no longer looked at him as a man, or my man, or a man I would want. That the old insecure and hurt me - she was gone. This was me getting up. I resented him for thinking this had all been in my head, when it wasn't. OK I was sensitive, I knew that. I Knew I could see and feel things deeper than maybe some other people, but I was still not making it up, I was not twisting it, I was not turning it into something it wasn't, I was not hallucinating the problem.

When he had done his time in therapy and worked on himself, we were somewhere when the narcissist, again, thought it would have it's fun with me, and then halleluja moment my husband reacted with anger. I could answer for myself, it wasn't that, and I did that too, but it never the less felt as if he finally cared enough for me to actually have a strong reaction. It did not feel as if he did it out of obligation no more, even if a part of me think maybe it was 50% his own true feelings finally coming to surface, and perhaps 50% was that he was aiming to please me. At least I could feel a connection between us again, before he had been disconnected, and I could feel that "I'm with you", that I had not felt for years before - which had hurt me tremendously. Again I don't think he understood how he was killing my love for him and my self esteem before and bringing me closer and closer to a stress reaction and light depression. I'm still today dealing with this light depression, and even if it is only light, it does not feel so light always. This too why I go backwards, this too while I repeat myself. Other areas are safe, in my other roles, but as his wife I still struggle, but now on my own, as he has truly changed and is doing everything he can to support me, but it should never had to go that far. I don't want to make crucial life decisions when I am in this state either, that I will later look back on and regret. I know in my rational mind that it takes time to heal and that I am getting better and better, but at times it feels as if I am going backwards or stand at the same spot, but then there are days when I am fine. I know we love each other and we love our family and things are stable now as far as his temper etc goes and that I am not exposed in any way to his narcissist of a parent and shall not be pushed into anything. He has apologized about a million times before about his ways back then.

He would always tell me he would have nightmares where he would yell and fight with his narcissistic parent but before in real life he was not showing that at all, as he in that state said he knew his parent was a narcissist and that it wanted emotions, and his way of handling this before was to show no emotions, and tried to reason even if he knew reason did not do the trick. He would think perhaps something would change, that now the parent had to learn that it could not continue this way or we would prefer or not see this parent, but he said it got to be clear to him that there was no change at all. This when he gave up on even having a conversation with the parent alone, after an incident where the parent had said, done something to me. I know one time the parent kept staring at me in silence, hateful looks, not saying anything while the rest of us was watching the television. I did not say anything. I kept looking at the television. Then suddenly my husband got up, he had had enough and proceeded to talk to the parent alone in a room, this was a long time ago. Apparently to him back then, that had been a sign his parent was crossing a line.

For a really long time as I was to go to work it was when I did that when silent tears would run down my cheeks, while I had these troubles in my marriage. I think it was that I somehow must have known OK I'm alone now, he's (my husband) is no where near, I'm still not home, I don't have to hold up this image of being stable and calm and think that I am a mom and wife and good neighbor. But I know I thought what is wrong with me, why am I crying now?

It would be the same in dreams, I would wake up to find these silent tears having run down but I did not even know if I had had a dream to make me unhappy. I suppose if you suppress it is going to come out one way or another. One only has to be sure too that one is suppressing it, becoming aware of that.

[Native spirit]

Well that wouldn't work for me as I never cry.
I will stand my ground against Men or women. when I go to a funeral I don't cry when most everyone else is Bawling their eyes out
If you have got to cry to get your own way in my opinion its not worth



Namaste

thank you for sharing, Native Spirit, yes if it is done with the purpose to manipulate, although I do not know how they do that those who do, then it is not worth, as you write.

[lostsoul13]

I understand you post.. can see my self in it~ I walk out too not wanting to show children: but they go through what I go through so they are angry just the same… it’s hard situation because most my bitterness is through reincarnation…. I fear only reincarnation—-

Once I go through it I know I can’t bear the pain of dying and the slow process it takes to get born into another body.. heck maybe even the same body…

Most of our fights are about reincarnation… it’s drove us wild at times - being unable to withstand the pain and conflict… the terror and torture at those moments… not knowing where you will be or end up…

Not knowing who or what your going to be in the next life… at times it’s still the people from schools first life and your on your third lol

That’s how mine went…

I think to stabilise the anger and not being frightened is to admit the insecurities…. But when they purpose you more than your own life there can be some strong denial there..