How would you have reacted?

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by asearcher

He has also told me that yes he knows that he has been on the defense, that it is an instinct that he has to defend himself against me because when I do say something,when he knows something is up and he does not think he has done anything wrong, or knows what is going on, that that is how he defend himself. That he does not mean anything by it, except for in the moment yes.

This is learned behavior, probably from growing up in the environment that he was in. This will take a lot of work from him and you. With you prefacing the discussion with a lot of "I love you, I need to say this and I need you to hear this in a loving manner. I am not trying to attack you, but I need you to understand how I felt about something that happened. It hurt my feelings and I know you didn't intentionally hurt my feelings but it did happen. And I need you to understand why it did." And stop in the conversation to reassure him that you love him, think he's a wonderful loving spouse and father and wouldn't trade him for anything in the world and you are honestly not trying to attack him or upset him, but you need to have this conversation.

It will take a lot of work. I've been married for 25 years and my husband will STILL go full on anger if someone says he did something, like having the scissors last and misplacing them -- really stupid #### to lose your #### over too. This last time he went on his rampage looking for something that I knew he had last and didn't know where it was and he eventually found it. It's exhausting. Thankfully it doesn't happen often. I don't know where that rage comes from but it is probably baggage from childhood that desperately needs to be unpacked and stress is a huge trigger.

It's very interesting to read all your words Traveler and your situation and how to handle those. Ah so you recognize that too. yes such minor things, details that one think can not possibly cause such a strong reaction.

(edited, deleted a part)

I think too he first thought his sort of temper was normal because it is normal where he comes from, from his first family. They fight right out in the open, if there is guests there or grandchildren don't matter but always I notice that the other parent (not the narc parent) takes steps back and allow the narc parent to win (as it always has to win I have been told). I don't take steps back. I still stand my ground. I won't budge. But I do speak in a neautral voice and it has been times the narc parent gets more and more outragous. So even if I stay calm on the outside and assertive, on the inside I am afraid to tell the truth because I know I am looking at a potentially dangerous, unstable person who lack empathy and boundaries. Then again I can not let a child or children think that crazy person is in charge and we inferior, that won't bring much safety.

I have experienced my husband try to use the narc parents tactics but even if that hurt that he has tried to do that it is still a poor imitation of the true narc. I think maybe my husband expected me to be like his other parent only to find out hell no. There has always been that part of me that won't back down .And I think lots of people think they can make me back down easily considering they look at my soft, sensitive face, fragile, they think, and too that I at first always took the blame for things even if not my fault, that was my first instinct, me being overly emphatic like oh of course it was my fault. I still will take the blame, responsibility for things but I will not jump to the conclusion that it is my fault right away.

I used to be very assertive when I was on a mission to protect someone else.

As i withdrew more and the pressuring situations our fights got worse and that was when I started to see a pattern in him.

I have told him before that I can't be in a relationship where I am afraid of him or where I won't dare to tell him things or to be angry or sad or what ever myself in fear of his response. That I am someone spontaneous, impulsive, instinctive too and that I need to still be that in order to just be myself in a relationship. That it is not really like me to have to think and think again and again and again before and if I will talk to him about something.

I have noticed that he is very easily triggered if I am going to tell him "I would like to talk to you about something" but these days he gets sad, right away, I see tears in his eyes and he says he is afraid I am going to say that I am leaving him again. So these days if and when I am to bring something up I think too what you write about does work just to make him feel more safe.

I think too the way I have been is that because I saw him as insensitive, tough, I too got to be that way when addressing something, he would too say I was cocky. Once or twice when he did see me sad, saw tears he at once got tears in his and then he wouldn't yell. But I did not want him to see me like that. Tears is a big no no where he comes from and for him I guess too as a man to show that, not allowed. Sometimes I think it must be really difficult to be a man and that us women have by far more allowance to express ourselves or to show ourselves "weak" than they have, and it is not fair. I remember when my dad, who was also highly sensitive I suspect like me, got tears in his eyes he would look away as if he was looking out the window and before he would swallow extra. It can't be easy being a guy.

I have noticed though that the narc parent just does fake cries, it is not even tears. It is so fake but I think this parent is way up on the narc ladder, perhaps as high up there as you can get.

I see a more true genuine emotional sensitivity in the other parent, as I do too my husband, but as soon as this parent too gets tears in it's eyes it has to hide as can not allowed the narc to see that as it will be turned against, made fun of.

I realize looking back that the narc parent could have been jealous, suspiscious of the relationship that was advancing between me and my husband's other parent. Because there I thought we were doing well, this parent and I, and all of a sudden they had had a family meeting without me where the narc parent decided that I would be ruled out and only so and so would be invited in and my luv would say that he would love to have me on too but somehow just because the narc parent had decided, even if the other parent objected and said it was fearful I was going to be hurt by this - it still went through. How it was presented to me was that of an united front.

I would find out eventually. (deleted a part).

Later on I have been told that my luv would talk about me and make it into this big mission to find something beautiful to give me while we would be apart, and he rarely gives but when he does there is always so much thought behind it, I can tell it means so much to him when he gives it to me. One of his sibling said had to follow him from one store to the next, felt it was never ending, because it had to be just right.

I think maybe then my luv was starting to feel that I shouldn't think I was less even if I was ruled out like that, and by giving me something beautiful it would somehow make a mends. He would also be in the habit of calling and texting so much when apart from me, or us, that it was starting to get on my nerves, but maybe that was his way too of trying to let me, us know I, we were not forgotten. I sort of think this was out of the narc-parent's area, that maybe this parent thought it would have more control of my husband than how it actually was. Then eventually one day my husband just said as if he was talking to himself that he was not going to go anymore without me, or us. And that was that.

I think maybe what the narc parent did was very successful in taking me down, as it too sort of shot a hole, ripped my relationship apart that I had built up with the other parent, we were by my book doing fine before this by the measurement that I realized, and fully accepted, could be fine, safe according to the other parent and I tried to too make the grandparent-grandkiddos relationship stronger. It does feel as if I can connect with this other parent. I don't know why but I have always felt it was important that the different generations meet, that it is a gain-gain situation (if only boundaries are respected, both ways, in that regard it is as if this grandparent understand. it has made mistakes but returns and shows that it has thought about what has been said and then changes, for the better, without any cross feelings).

Anyways I think that was what the narc was after. And it worked. That worked. I gave up then and there, and then just began doing my own thing. I felt so let down by the other parent and by my husband too that it went beyond any words. I always knew something fishy was going on.

Sorry I write so much (again).

Thank you for all the great advice :)

[Traveler]

I think he's shown time and again that he truly loves you and would probably walk on glass or through fire for you. And he's shown he's willing to change. You have a good man. He may be slightly irregular if not scratched and dented like stuff you'd find in the clearance bin, but then a lot of us are. And I think he's willing to do the hard work that is necessary. Being familiar with what factor is driving the particular mood or behavior -- autism, anxiety or old family baggage growing up in a dysfunctional family will probably help both of you. My daughter is good with telling me when she's getting anxious or her adhd is getting the better of her. We're still new on the learning curve as well and trying to navigate it and understand it. All the while pushing her towards independence.

[astralsuzy]

Sounds like Traveler has made good points and says you have a good man so I would stick with him. That is good to hear. I did not read all of it as it is a lot to read.

[Izz]

Yes it seems Traveler is more informed than me on the aspect regarding autism. I could only speak from what I know of how a golden child needs to do the work of breaking away from certain dysfunctional patterns, but that's about it. Hope it all works out for you, asearcher :)

you are so very kind thank you, really :)

Traveler, I think it is really marvelous that your daughter is doing such great progress and can now recognize the feelings and what to do when it happens

I've edited, deleted the rest I wrote. I swear there is something wrong with me writing so much each time.

I hope you are right.

What pains me is that I think my husband's other parent (not the narc) is autistic too. And therefor can not read certain social codes in this particular parent case, is vulnerable that way, when I wish it wasn't, same for my husband. The narc take full advantage of that.

The more I learn about autism on the spectrum the more I see my husband. The anxiety. The aggressive, shut off, shut down part when things are overwhelming. Even his "steam" if I put it that way, LOL. His true sensitivity. His tenderness. His sympathy, empathy. His brilliance. More stuff I won't name. I see a lot.

He keeps on doing better and better, seem stable now.

We know now how to better communicate. If I communicate to him and think of some things from the autistic spectrum perspective than it is no problem at all. And I mean that: No problem at all. It is as if I see him again.

As for me I think it was maybe important, maybe a life lesson, that I have to be better at feeling my own needs and articulate them. His has been that he simply will not ask me what I think about something if he has already made up his mind what is right and wrong, even if I am suppose to be included. So then he just goes and does his thing. I used to accept that and not say anything about it til I would in the end discover that it was not my way and that he could at least have asked me. There were few times I protested and he then was surprised. The thought had not hit him before. I think this could be a reason why autistic on the spectrum (highly advanced) can come off as beings by themselves.

Now I understand that it is not wrong of me to tell him what I need from a romantic partner (him). He can still chose if to give it to me or not. It's Ok that he knows. More so he wants to know. So it is not me telling him he does not do this, he does not do that. Or becoming his mama. Or pressuring him. I have told him of my opinion (does not have to be about my romantic needs) and there are times he has come back and changed his mind and adopted mine, and times when he still stand by his own on a subject.

He also says things just how he sees them, so there is no butter to it, and that can come off as insensitive and harsh to me, especially when he one time pointed out I had gained weight. He has had and I think still has a fear of "fat", that that will make him, us sick. That is why he all of a sudden goes on his "crazy-diets" (as I call them) and speak to me in an almost foreign language (the gym-language, not my language). He can then become irritated, frustrated that I have not shared this passion. While I think he has gone overboard and worry about him (lack of nutrition, overkill, having to walk, run after having eaten something). That too is typical autistic, that he gets so fixated, I mean, and then he can't get me to be just as much or even a little. Even if that is his expecation he can't win me over. He was irritated when he told me about my weight.

His eyes saw me gaining weight as danger-alert, and that it was then his "duty" as my husband to "correct" me. He would think me gaining weight meant something was wrong, that I could or already was sick and needed to fix that. He said he had not said anything but had been worried, felt helpless during my pregnancy for instance (as he was by then used to me being underweight, and did not expect that to happen, but I feel I have been on a "spectrum" on everything from underweight, normal weight and overweight). I too remember he did not say one single compliment to me during my whole pregnancy. Not one. When I would later try to adress that, he would then just say "well you were big". Now I can laugh at that, but back then I just sighed.

I saw it as if he was not as attracted to me anymore, among other things. There is too a kind of obsession in his first family (not everyone) about weight etc. So to him this is normal.

We split after that, he did not want to. During the split he then came up with the idea that could I name ONE time he said when he had rejected me (in bed)?. Just ONE time? I couldn't. I actually couldn't. All this time. I had to think back. I know he before used to say I want you like all the time, but I know we can't, and you're tired and sleeping and I understand.

When i said No, I couldn't, actually think of a time, he went "Gotcha!". He looked happy then. He thought he had found the answer. That it had not been the way I had read it as. He would say he had always found me attractive, no matter the weight.

He would too apologize, he did that straight when he saw my hurt expression before I turned away that time before when he put down my weight.

Afterwards too he would one time try to claim that my "new body weight" was now his physical type, I just looked at him and thought he had a screw loose. The thing was I was only at most slightly overweight, but the way he had talked it sounded as if we had a major crises on our hands, as if it was most urgent that I really had to deal with this problem with my weight.

I think the way the narc in his family says, and does behave is from a narc-source of doing that and not something autistic so that was too why I had a strong reaction to it.

When trying to do therapy I remember this one time he showed off a photo he had of me, carried it with him, and it was only of my face, and I asked him, angry, where is the rest of the body?! Because I thought for some reason only my face would do, and that my body was not good enough (in shape or weight or what ever) to too have. And he replied "Your body is attached to your head!". Something of the sort. Even back then we did not understand he had autism. But he answered my question, but it could too have been read off as if he was frustrated and making fun of me as if I was stupid. Today I can laugh at that, and before it used to bring me such pain. And I thought he just kept making it worse with his replies as well.

I think I am pretty good at reading people, and reading him as well, but it is when I myself get too upset, hurt or what ever, that I can't read someone at all. I'm then getting in my own way.

(edited above)

oh and one other time, I just have to add this, he told me as we were eating that he was surprised I did not weight much more considering how much I ate.

He thought that was a nice thing to say. A compliment even.

I remember I just took down the fork with food on it back on the plate.

;)

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by asearcher

oh and one other time, I just have to add this, he told me as we were eating that he was surprised I did not weight much more considering how much I ate.

He thought that was a nice thing to say. A compliment even.

I remember I just took down the fork with food on it back on the plate.

;)

Watch Young Sheldon and Big Bang Theory. Especially the episodes when Sheldon's mom visits because Sheldon has gone off the 'deep end' and Leonard calls her because he's worried about Sheldon. He gets fired and starts up some hobbies at home that become more and more concerning to his friends. Mary blusters in and gets Sheldon sorted out and his job back. Really funny episode. I think most if not all of your hubby's 'off' or 'rude remarks' and 'obvious rude' behavior has to do with being on the spectrum and not because he is a narcissist. Narcissists behavior is driven by the need to be right, adored, the center of attention, winning, etc. What little you have written here, his rude or mean behavior seems to be driven by cluelessness, and not by a desire to get revenge, which narcissists will do to someone they perceive as an enemy or even just no longer providing "the sunlight for them to bask in".

We have a very famous person that is in the news right now who displays classic narcissistic behavior. Fawn all over him and he's your best friend. Criticize him and he'll throw you under the bus.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by asearcher

oh and one other time, I just have to add this, he told me as we were eating that he was surprised I did not weight much more considering how much I ate.

He thought that was a nice thing to say. A compliment even.

I remember I just took down the fork with food on it back on the plate.

;)

Lol. I think that about my daughter. She has a very physical job. She works with a woman who owns horses and she does a lot of physical labor grooming the horses and taking care of the tack and the barn. So she burns serious calories and can sit down and tuck in some serious food. And it seriously ticks me off! lol. Like when I've brought home a cake from the grocery store (we have this really awesome bakery that sells their stuff to the stores) she'll cut herself a big ole slice after dinner and she does not gain an ounce! And me, if I just look at the cake, I'll gain weight! Ah, to be young and have a healthy metabolism.

Laugh at him when he says stuff like that and say something sarcastic like "Thanks, I owe all to Simon, my tapeworm" then wink at him. Then laugh when he tries to figure out if you're serious or not and yell "psych!" and then say "you really shouldn't talk about someone's weight like that, it's rude."