Healing via hypnosis and meditation from a Neuroscience perspective

[saurab]

Hypnosis is not the authentic or right way of healing yourself of psychological problems because the unconscious impressions are the generalization of the subconscious group of impressions, and the subconscious mind is the generalization of the conscious mind. So, for a psychological problem, hypnosis bypasses the conscious mind and directly influences the subconscious mind. What is the problem with that ? The problem is that you dont learn anything about your psychological problem or affliction. You merely heal the problem without understanding it or learning from it. What has all this to do with the subconscious mind being the generalization of the conscious mind ? Because if through hypnosis the generalization (or the summary interpretation ) of the psychological problem changes, then even without learning anything, the problem ends, and that is not how psychological problems should end.

But because there is very little to learn from physical problems except pain and discomfort, hypnosis is not that illegal for healing physical problems.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by saurab

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We have a different understanding of what reality is. This is why you can't understand what I stated: "nobody is cured by another (not even by Christ); everybody can be cured only by themselves."

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by saurab

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Based on my experience, and on my understanding of reality, I disagree with practically everything in your post, but I have no inclination to argue with you or anybody else. I'm replying here just as a second opinion for the other readers' reference.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by saurab

Hypnosis is not the authentic or right way of healing yourself of psychological problems ... The problem is that you dont learn anything about your psychological problem or affliction. You merely heal the problem without understanding it or learning from it.

I suspect many would disagree with this.

Yes, there are those who go so deeply into trance that when they return to waking consciousness they have no conscious memory of what has happened. But they are a minority.

At the other extreme there are those who are unable to go into trance, usually because they are cannot let go and flow with the process.

But for most people the hypnotic state is a state of deep relaxation where the contents of the subconscious are allowed to rise into conscious awareness, where suppressed memories and emotions can be brought to the surface to be experienced and released. The hypnotic subject is fully aware throughout the process and participates in the process under the guidance of the hypnotherapist. When they return to normal waking consciousness they remember all that has occurred. Their particular issues may or may not have been resolved, but they should have a greater insight into the causes of their issues.

Peace

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by saurab

Because for some undeserving people who need to suffer, the Higher Self prevents the suggestions from taking effect. The Higher Self has ABSOLUTE control over the whole organism, body, mind, emotions, feelings. That is the reason why some people are cured of cancer and other life threatening diseases and some are not.

I agree with you in principle that the "Higher Self" (however one may define that) does indeed have a mysterious power over the entire manifestation and hence certain entities may not be cured of their illness as long as the purpose of that illness has not been fulfilled.

However, I would not use the word "undeserving" to describe such people but would simply say that they still have lessons of some kind that must be learned via that illness.

NOTE: I like the direction in which this is heading. Thank you for sharing.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by inavalan

The typical example is: "Don't think of a pink elephant now!"
You should, at least vaguely, briefly have imagined one.

That is indeed a better example than the one I used.
When one tells a person "Don't think of a pink elephant now", anyone can see that the thought of a pink elephant enters one mind immediately even if only briefly.

Great example.

Hence ... to repeat the key point ... suggestions/visualizations should be of a positive nature.

[Catsquotl]

I am unfamiliar with Dr Siegel or hypnosis.
The discussion reminds of a book called Buddha's brain though where neuroscientists describe the crossover between meditation and neuro science.

see https://www.wisebrain.org/

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by inavalan

As I understand these, nobody is cured by another (not even by Christ); everybody can be cured only by themselves.

The hypnotist may facilitate your getting in contact with subconscious, but ultimately the cure depends only on what you communicate to your subconscious, both consciously and unconsciously. Your beliefs and your emotions are the main factors.

While I agree with you that "your beliefs and your emotions are the main factors", my understanding is that there can be exceptions to that when extraordinary beings are involved. I personally saw my teacher leave the room when her chief disciple was experiencing severe back pain. When my teacher returned a few minutes later and asked "how do you feel now", the disciple confirmed that there was no longer any back pain whatsoever. When we asked my teacher what she had done, she simply gave her standard response to such queries: "I don't know. Meditate."

Then there is the Biblical story about Jesus reportedly healing the centurion's servant.

Just as the extraordinary ones can communicate in complete and utter silence (my direct experience on more than one occasion), it is my sense that they can affect the conscious/subconscious in such a way that the receiver experiences healing. It is also my understanding that the healing can "wear off" if the person reverts to previous mental activity and non-healthy habits.

In intense dialogues with some of my teacher's students, I have heard them say afterwards that "I understood this when she was saying it" but, now, I can't articulate any of it any more.

My sense is that a powerful pure being, acting in the best interests of the other, can influence the conscious/subconscious of another ... though the effect may not be lasting. If the other has faith in the healing, then that introduces another positive factor into this equation.

In general though, I agree with you statement... but not completely.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 24 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

But for most people the hypnotic state is a state of deep relaxation where the contents of the subconscious are allowed to rise into conscious awareness, where suppressed memories and emotions can be brought to the surface to be experienced and released.

Their particular issues may or may not have been resolved, but they should have a greater insight into the causes of their issues.

You've raised some very good points in your post.

I just finished re-reading Dr. Michael Newton's book, "Journey of Souls", in which he hypnotically regressed subjects to a prior phase of their lives at which point they did indeed having greater insights into the cause of their issues. Some hypnotists, as mentioned by a previous poster, don't have such dialogues. However, some like Michael Newton do have dialogues with the subject in that trance state which can indeed trigger significant insights.

EDIT:

I just registered for a two-session continuing education class for mental health professionals for tomorrow, March 3rd 2023. I am hoping that the point you just raised will be discussed in this psychotherapy-oriented event. There are two sessions to the class and my sense is that it will cover what we are discussing. The presenter is Michael D. Yapko, Ph.D., a clinical psychologist residing in Southern California. He is internationally recognized for his work in advancing clinical hypnosis and outcome-focused psychotherapy, routinely teaching to professional audiences all over the world.

Session 1: Hypnosis and Mindfulness: The Role of Suggestion in Transforming Experience in a Focused State

Session 2: Mindfulness and Hypnosis: The Shared Dynamics of Suggestion in Transforming Experience

[Still_Waters]

Post 27

Originally Posted by Catsquotl

I am unfamiliar with Dr Siegel or hypnosis.
The discussion reminds of a book called Buddha's brain though where neuroscientists describe the crossover between meditation and neuro science.

I just went to the WiseBrain site that you recommended and became absorbed in a quote by Michael Merzenich on the home page:

"We choose and sculpt how our ever-changing minds will work. We choose who we will be the next moment, in a very real sense, and these choices are left embossed in physical form on our material selves."

It appears to be a very interesting site. Thank you for sharing.