Spiritual growth: the real determinant

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

In direct experience, would you say that a this or that practice, is a sufficient cause of spiritual growth
without an actual shift of consciousness in thought, word and deed, moment to moment, in lived reality? What in your view, is the actual determinant?

I would surmise perhaps that Realisation comes first then Spiritual practices. It was not always so, I thought if you practice this,
this and this you will arrive at that that and that to put it simply. But now that I have lived some more I believe that the realisation is already done
at it's very deepest level.

So you pick up a musical instrument or use your voice to sing and believe that you are a singer or musician because of the instrument
but I believe you already are that musician or writer the guitar for example or pen gives only expression to what is. It is the same with spiritual practices,
they give expression to what is always there.

I'm also looking at Tai Chi at the moment and thinking if you practice XY and Z you will definitely get certain results within the discipline but that doesn't mean
that you have somehow created the Tao by such practices even when the practices are super advanced and can cause supernatural things to occur as with all spiritual disciples,
it doesn't follow that you have you understood that these phenomena are moving within the Universe and are part of the Universe, or you might say the Universe
is moving within these phenomena.

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[zastrakoza]

Actual determinant is intention. The action or practice taken to support that intention will likely not be the best one before a shift in consciousness. But it doesn't matter. The action taken confirms the intention and Spirit leads from there.

[Starman]

zastrakoza, excellent response!!

Unseeking Seeker, from what you shared in post #8, one might suggest that there is no “other side.” I still profess that there really is no inside or outside, one is just a reflection of the other, which in turn says there really is no this side and the other side, or other shore. Its’ all happening right here in the eternal now. No matter where we go for us it will always be here and it will always be now; just depends on what we are tuning to in this eternal now. Reality is a matter of perception.

[JustBe]

[b] Unseeking Seeker, Its’ all happening right here in the eternal now. No matter where we go for us it will always be here and it will always be now; just depends on what we are tuning to in this eternal now. Reality is a matter of perception.[/quote]

Hi starman.

My process has me realise sides within self eventually fall away to understand yourself complete in my existence. I think initially you look at all sides to integrate this awareness and being state.

I like the term boundless being. Grounded on the earth in this way. Living the realisations just open and clear.

For me my focus is no longer on the experience of love, bliss more pronounced, but rather being grounded in the body aware and connected as all those streams and sides. My movements now in life simply meet what is, from a ‘connected’ state of being. So just moving through life open in this way, each experience becomes whatever stream I’m swimming in from those realisations and integration.


I’m not sure if I’m making sense.

[Starman]

JustBe, in my opinion it is not necessary to make sense when talking about spiritual experiences. The universe works in a way far beyond human reasoning. There is order and chaos in this manifested universe, and I see that the chaos is currently part of the order. No, that may not make sense to the human mind but it does on another level of perception.

Yes, it is boundless, and while the drop is in the ocean the ocean is also in the drop. We are in our physical body but our physical body is also within us, within our consciousness. Spiritual matters are often spoke of in metaphors, parables, and the like because it is a different dimension, and the spoken language we use sometimes may be inadequate.

[Starseed19]

In my view there are many detrimental factors towards spiritual development. One that stands out to me is "hanging on." When we make progress sometimes memories from our past come up and if we hang onto those memories or relive them; give them power over us. It slows down one's progress.

For example if someone is new to meditation. They may clear their mind for a few moments and think wow! Only to have memories come up, or distracting thoughts. If this person becomes frustrated by not letting the thoughts pass by them they will more than likely ruin their meditation experience. Attachment is a major detriment to spiritual growth.

Another is blaming outside sources or past events for the way things are in one's life now. Placing limitations on ourselves is another detriment. As well as lack of patience. Sometimes it takes a long time for our efforts and work to come to fruition.

One more detrimental aspect is staying "stuck" in the same thought patterns. Many people are in perpetual thought loops throughout their lives. If you are to progress spiritually it's very beneficial to break free from the same conditioned thinking day in and day out. It can be very refreshing and liberating to experience new ways of thinking, being or doing things.

Lastly I'll touch upon another aspect of spiritual growth. To be a successful practitioner one needs to acknowledge the progress they have made. Sometimes we make progress and don't even realize it. Take a moment every so often to acknowledge what you have achieved and be grateful for it.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Joe Mc post 11 ~ what then brings about realisation? And if we have realised, what’s the point of practice?

[Redchic12]

Yep I have to agree with Starman.

Perhaps we can call it “organised chaos”. Lol

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ Joe Mc post 11 ~ what then brings about realisation? And if we have realised, what’s the point of practice?

Nothing can bring about realisation you are already realised. Plenty of things
seem to block realisation but nothing can bring it about. The point of practice is to realise that practice
can't bring about realisation. Practice is also there as a gift to the world. Realised Masters offer practice
as a way of life and a gift through their compassion.

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[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by JustBe

My movements now in life simply meet what is, from a ‘connected’ state of being. So just moving through life open in this way, each experience becomes whatever stream I’m swimming in from those realisations and integration.


I’m not sure if I’m making sense.

it made sense to me FWIW.... I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of meeting what is in a more holistic way. For me it is a matter of, not being so sure I can know some 'correct' way you or I should be and maybe for a change I could be something else than that a correctness-seeking being???? as best I can anyway. It isn't something I could do in a 'complete' way with my own mind I don't think. Even talking about it is kinda silly because it just becomes another way of being 'correct' if I get too attached to that idea lol....

But I'm not sure where this is going, other than it is what seems interesting....