Don't Tell Me That You Love Me

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

So, it is true, the more I carry on about how much I love you, the further away from love I become, love cannot be put into poetry, or into words, there is nothing wrong with doing this but as long as you believe that love is found there, then the longer you keep yourself away from what love is, and what is love, its just what is, its life, its a flower opening for the bee, its the honey from the bee, its the bear finding and eating the honey. Simply put, love is life, love is life when life is let alone to be life, try to grab life and greedily try to keep it to yourself, and life will become false and toxic, try to grab someone's heart and hold it with the excuse of calling it a relationship, or marriage, and just like life it will wither away and become poison, after all love in another is also life, its your life, its my life its everyone's life, for there is only ONE life, ONE love, you don't have to beg for it, you are IT.

I hear ya Slice and agree. This is the ultimate understanding you put forward. What advice would you give to someone who isnt there yet?

[NightSpirit]

I would like to add something to that myself..re love.

Love shifts. we know we have the capacity to love our family, kids, friends, partner, all at the same time and each carries a different kind of influence. To recognise this as true, also states that 'love' is a human emotion and adapts to its circumstance.

When one moves past this concept and recognises that there's another 'love' that holds no strings then one doesnt need to ask these questions.

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

You force my hand nh...I tried to avoid it but you just had to push me, didnt you?


Read my lips....
There aint no default, love, awareness, consciousness, etc! Its all in your head mate! So make a decision on which side of the fence you want to fall on...'intellect' or 'this way to understanding'. Psssttt!...*whispers*...dont opt for the intellect.

Listen to Slice and me nh....its all contrived to keep us in line and guessing. Let go of the mind and then you will enter what you call 'default'.

Thank you for your input O spirit of the Night......I have done my searching and just wanted to open it for pondering is all .........I would think that you've got as much chance of catching the wind in your hands as you have to express love through mind.....but as Mattie said we need a point to start .......

[Squatchit]

Hiya nh and all

It's a funny thing, isn't it?

"I love you" can be one of the hardest things to say. I know us Brits are pants at saying it.

I wonder if the very act of saying it aloud makes love smaller. Rather like in a lucid dream if you say the words "I am dreaming" out loud it can (and often does) dissolve the dream.

Could the same be said for other stuff too? Or has love (specifically and singularly) been elevated?

What about fear? Hate? Anger? Joy? Passion? Does speaking of these diminish them too?

Hmmm. What about feeling love as opposed to speaking about it? Does the very act of feeling love make it smaller? What about showing love? As in hugs, looks, touches. Does that diminish it?

I think I disagree that speaking of it reduces it.

Mr Slice says that life is love. Life is not love. Life is life. You can live life in love...or not. It's not about looking for love in poetry and the like...it's expressing love that is within.

Hmmm. That's more what I mean. Expressions. We are made of love (and all the other stuff) and have the ability to express this stuff. Golly I've used the word stuff a lot. Maybe words are a poor substitute for the love we feel inside (or the hate etc), but that's not enough reason to keep quiet.

I wonder if I'm making sense.

Squatch

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by not human

Thank you for your input O spirit of the Night......I have done my searching and just wanted to open it for pondering is all .........I would think that you've got as much chance of catching the wind in your hands as you have to express love through mind.....but as Mattie said we need a point to start .......

But i dont understand this nh. Why do you need a point to start at if you already know this?

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by Squatchit

Hiya nh and all

It's a funny thing, isn't it?

"I love you" can be one of the hardest things to say. I know us Brits are pants at saying it.

I wonder if the very act of saying it aloud makes love smaller. Rather like in a lucid dream if you say the words "I am dreaming" out loud it can (and often does) dissolve the dream.

Could the same be said for other stuff too? Or has love (specifically and singularly) been elevated?

What about fear? Hate? Anger? Joy? Passion? Does speaking of these diminish them too?

Hmmm. What about feeling love as opposed to speaking about it? Does the very act of feeling love make it smaller? What about showing love? As in hugs, looks, touches. Does that diminish it?

I think I disagree that speaking of it reduces it.

Mr Slice says that life is love. Life is not love. Life is life. You can live life in love...or not. It's not about looking for love in poetry and the like...it's expressing love that is within.

Hmmm. That's more what I mean. Expressions. We are made of love (and all the other stuff) and have the ability to express this stuff. Golly I've used the word stuff a lot. Maybe words are a poor substitute for the love we feel inside (or the hate etc), but that's not enough reason to keep quiet.

I wonder if I'm making sense.

Squatch

Squish..may i?

its said in a few words. There's human love and there's.......

Love what you feel and feel what you love.

I can only speak for myself but every time I have ever said ' I love You ' to another I have had an accompanying twinge of contrivance to go with it........I know I mean it but I am unfullfilled about the expression of it. Would further back up the honourable Mr Slice's claim.........

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

I hear ya Slice and agree. This is the ultimate understanding you put forward. What advice would you give to someone who isnt there yet?

My advise would be no advice, their already there, they just got to stop trying to be there, or trying to satisfy someone's need, at the same time wanting someone to satisfying you own needs, and this is what we are all doing to each other, take, take, take, how many go into a relationship just to give, to share., I know I didn't when i was younger, but why wait tell were older and battered and bruised.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by not human

I can only speak for myself but every time I have ever said ' I love You ' to another I have had an accompanying twinge of contrivance to go with it........I know I mean it but I am unfullfilled about the expression of it. Would further back up the honourable Mr Slice's claim.........

if you carry a twitch to speaking out love nh, then its coming from a place that intellectulises it. When you're capable of saying it without reserve then you understand.

I love you nh

[Gem]

Originally Posted by not human

So a couple of us were lounging around the other night talking nonsense and generally sucking the life out of a highly compromised thread......when low and behold Rob Slice weary from a night of frollicking ......crawls in through the doggie door.....wearing some sort of ladies garment from an earlier era obviously covered in pizza stains.

He proceeds to point at us shakily with his forefinger.....he fixed his mad glare through his one good eye.......then laid this little jewel down..' Love cannot be spoken.... as soon as you start to tell someone that you love them, you actually start to tell them how you don't love them.'
He collapsed on the floor. We couldn't revive him and no one was game enough to administer CPR. We put him in the bath tub to sleep it off.

I had heard similar phrases in the past...like ' The Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao' or ' The one who speaks of Zen...does not know Zen ' etc.

I had at the time contemplated these statements and was quite pleased with my findings. However Slice's revealings touched a new area of resonance as they implied that not only was the verbalization of these higher principals incorrect ...but downright destructive.

So I sat with that. What I then found was similar to my past inquiries however deeper in resonance. That the minds attempt at translation of love and other higher principals creates a poor quality photostat copy vastly inferior to the source and as a result...corrupted.

So the point I ponder is this......as we have a snowballs chance in hell of mentally understanding and communicating to a default areas like love, awareness, consciousness etc do we actually muddy the waters and slow ourselves down in attempting to discuss them or is the instigation at a level of mind necessary to the process of cognition on a higher level?

It's pretty simple, not to know what it is, but as it is felt, and saying it is one thing, but meaning it is another, and 'spiritual people' say I love you generally but don't mean it, for if it is bandied about it becomes meaningless, but if it has the emotional content evoked by a genuine attachment then it is said truthfully.

Oops attachment, another 'spiritual' no no, but in life there are attachments whether you cling or not, so to lose a loved one causes suffering felt as heartbreak, and the fear of making such attachments only leads to a suffering much deeper.

Love involves making an attachment and that make it hurt, but the problem lies in having an aversion which entails avoidance of that pain, which in turn forces a clinging need... as the true issue lies not in the attachment itself, but an inability to let go, which is the essence of control.

I can just go straight to the cliche that 'we are love' but can only say it is evident to me that hatred occurs too and if hatred arizes in someones feeling then OK, I know what that's like...

So I don't know what love is, no one really does, I know how it feels and so does eveyone else, so when people say I love you I know what they mean, and also if they really mean what they say... because more often than not, especially in a place like SF, they really mean 'look at how loving I am'.

I appreciate something in what you say there NH... sounds more 'really you'.