Is there value in suffering?

[lemex]

Is there truth in and about suffering? Is the value truth? That lesson.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

i don't think anyone WANTS to choose that.

Really? I think the opposite ...many (not all)...DO want to suffer.
If someone offers any help they can throw a beer bottle at them to get out.

[Starman]

Yes, there are people who get pleasure from suffering; they are called “masochists.” They deliberately inflict pain on themselves and or want others to inflict pain on them. People who like to inflict pain are called “sadist” and masochist usually find people who are sadistic to have a relationship with.

There are entire religions based on suffering, Christianity often talks about how Jesus suffered and died for our sins. There are people in Hinduism who renounce all physical comforts and pleasures, they renounce the pleasures of this world and believe in suffering. Many Buddhist believe that human life is about suffering.

Suffering is welcomed by many groups and lots of people in this world, and there are also people who unconsciously keep making themselves a target of abuse; people who go from one abusive relationship to another abusive relationship. There are lots of people who choose, consciously or unconsciously, to suffer.

[lemex]

I would agree with Miss H. People do not want to suffer. In fact a lot of suffering is from trying to avoid it. In the real world suffering is allowed. This is obvious. Many allow suffering for what can be gained, other attachements. To talk about the masochist is not even relevant at all aside from the idea of seeking joy (pleasure) which causes suffering for those trying to avoid it. We are talking about a misunderstanding of (spiritual) joy imo (and suffering imo) in that we are trying to obtain. All seek joy. it is the natural state. Remember there is consciousness behind suffering and joy. Suffering is imo because of selfishness. We all know the experience of suffering and so know the experience. The idea of the masochist is absolutely not my experience. The idea of, we want to suffer is absolutely not my experience as well. Here I am just presenting my experience which seems entirely opposite. Bottom line you can look at what is being chosen to know.

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi, lemex, :) I would say suffering is not exactly selfishness, but rather self-centeredness.
Grief for years is a very deep suffering...a knife in the heart.
It can come from guilt, regret or it can stir up the person's intrinsic low self-esteem...it feeds it....either case
they are centering on themselves...way too much, from my experience.

FIRST thing I advise my friends is please -do a super good thing for others to 'get out of yourself all the time',
(like the homeless, the poor....
I usually say get outside and staple $5 dollar bills in laundromats and Bus benches and trees where the homeless hang out all day...
it can really change a person.)
I mean YEARS they are crying from divorces or a spouse's death, for example.
The person they miss has moved on.
It's terrible for all of us to watch...the crying and sobbing many yrs later like it was yesterday, omg.
Yet, they are not selfish and never have been.
Just my exp - maybe a semantic issue.

[Starman]

Today we see people, Palestinians, suffering in Gaza, Ukraine, Sudan, Haiti, and other places around the world. People starving, homeless and living out in the open under constant threat of violence. I do not readily see the value in that kind of suffering.

Although that suffering may be there so that we who are not suffering can be more compassionate. People generally do not show compassion for wealthy people, people who are well off. We only show compassion for people who we feel are suffering.

But billionaires and millionaires also suffer, although they usually receive no compassion. So maybe the value of suffering is for us who are not suffering to bring out our compassion. Mother Teresa worked with the poorest of the poor in India, in so doing she displayed great compassion. Would compassion be necessary if people were not suffering? I would hope so.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Starman

Today we see people, Palestinians, suffering in Gaza, Ukraine....
People starving, homeless and living out in the open under constant threat of violence.
I do not readily see the value in that kind of suffering.

I know, right?
Sigh, terrible.

That said.
I do not know the bigger picture or The Big Picture.
Could it possibly be that they volunteered before they were born that their sacrifice would/could
change the WORLD?!! The World?!
DO these things keep happening to finally change Humanity's consciousness? One after the other??
Do they keep happening so people will show more compassion and HELP others?!

See, imo, nothing is what it seems.

[Starman]

I totally agree Miss Hepburn. There are so many possibilities but the fact is it does bring out something in most of us to see others suffering. Lots of people are even moved by the suffering of animals.

So in my opinion suffering is not only about the person who is suffering, it is also about those who witness that suffering. How suffering is viewed in a society has to do with the values of that society.

The spiritual experience connects us all, regardless of our path. We lift ourselves up when we lift others up. The only thing is, some people suffer because they do not have basic needs while others may suffer because they can’t get what they want.

But as you have previously stated, and as I have learned, not to allow myself to suffer too long over my suffering. Notwithstanding, getting basic needs met.

[Miss Hepburn]

Yup, Starman, good post.

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Those who inquire are set free, those who live by instinct, remain bound. Such are my views.

Nicely put...