Meditation, some answers

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 865 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Legrand

But when you start really listening to the heart beats with all your mind, it changes your mind, like I said, to the point that your mind becomes the real master that has full control over each heart beats and at the same time over each breath.

That is not an uncommon practice among certain yogis who have demonstrated their control over both the heart beats and the breath in lab experiments....for whatever reason.

[running]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 865 EXCERPT:
for whatever reason.

Well the heart is like an atomic bomb and the mind is a pop gun. Using a bigger gun makes the job easy and simple. With that said there is a lot happening at lightening speed so its not for the faint of heart. also like everything in life it seems its not as popular despite the difference, so unknown to the masses except from certain yogis.

Hi guys,

i am back, rested and refreshed and ready to resume.

I have missed a lot of posts so am starting from where i left unanswered posts which were addressed to me.

with love,
sanjay

Originally Posted by razzer

I dont know , but i tried the meditation thing for 20 to 30 years as well . Followed all the teachings , etc..... Eventually i looked up and it felt like i was the one who was sick a lot , i was the one who had more fear , i still did not have any answers after all this time . Also life was the same **** it was , with its struggles and limitations and the same stuff happening over and over. Go figure. To me the subconcious is like a dark repository where all thoughts , addictions , and habits end up . It is well hidden and very difficult if not impossible to see and do anything with. It has no face. You can stop one of your addictions 30 years ago , and one day you will wake up realizing you were dreaming about that same addiction 30 years later. If there is a spirit with a great plan , then you have to question the design of it, where this kind of setup inside one is a recipie for difficulty.

Hi razzer,

What you felt or feeling is a not uncommon to aspirants. All those who continue the efforts in spirituality for long times, are bound to face these phases at some point.

Always remember that effort itself is a sufficient reward. Nothing else is required. It does not matter at all whether efforts are getting results or not. I know that this may sound unconvincing but it is true.

You raised two questions in your post. First why is so much suffering in spite of that long effort and second about old bad habits and thoughts bouncing back after long time.

if you go through the whole thread, you will realize that i have addressed both of these questions already but it is a very long thread so for you convenience, i am going to repeat that.

As far as your first query is concerned, you have to understand that the journey of a soul does not end in one lifetime. There were some before this one and some will be after this one too. In other words, we can see only a one page of a long ledger and try to determine the outcome by seeing only those limited entries done on that single page but that is not the way how the accounting is supposed to be conducted. One may have more credit or debit entries at one page but the balance cannot be calculated without taking carryforward balances into account and we do not know what kind of past balances are carried forwarded into this lifetime and that creates the confusion.

If you look around the world, you may find many people who do not apparently deserve what they got. that also happens because of the same reason as i mentioned above. Most of the children and spouses of the millionaires have not done anything to have what they have but they may have lots of carryforward credit balances coming into this lifetime hence they are enjoying it now.

Secondly, this human life is either test or training. There is no third purpose of this human life. As a thumb rule, difficult life or circumstances means that one is going through training and easy and enjoyable life implies test but there may be some exceptions of this. So, the point is that there is no need to be dishearten from the difficulties of the life. Consider it as your training and try to put your best effort to overcome that irrespective of the results.

Lastly, i am telling it from my personal experience that odds are in the favor that life generally becomes difficult for those who try to engage seriously in spirituality. The reason behind this that spirituality is just like a continuous fight with higher spiritual entities. At every step one has to fight and defeat those entities and they fight back too because that is their duty and all that struggle sometimes affects worldly life too, just like domino affect.

Now let us come to your second point of bouncing bad habits back. You are right about saying that the subconscious is like depository but it is just depository, neither dark or bright. All kind or memories are stored there and bound to come out from time to time. That is how human mind is supposed to work, Nothing wrong or unusual in it. Just in the way your dark side tends to pop out time and again, i am sure your subconscious will feed you with positive thoughts also. The key is to take it as a default mechanism of the mind and not to pay too much attention to all this. These emotions, both dark and bright, will keep coming and going. Let us not get too much involved with those and they will eventually subside but never go away completely. One has to learn to live with that.

with love,
sanjay

Originally Posted by razzer

Yea , maybe not at this time , or the last 20 to 30 years either. What the secret formula that isn't secret?

Well, there is no secret formula except that keep doing it. There may be some nuances but at the end of the day the only thing matters is your sincerity and commitment. These two things can make one learn all on its own. No outside help is required. Having said that, judicious outside help can hasten process a bit and somewhat easier too.

with love,
sanjay

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by zinnat

this human life is either test or training. There is no third purpose of this human life

Well, yes, I’d agree that earth life is a school, perhaps a hard one, given sharp contrast of duality, with veils of ignorance having us believe we are limited.

So, what does this school require us to learn? I’d posit that here now, feeling incomplete, our innate aliveness (awareness, consciousness) yearns to become complete. On becoming complete, absolute, our mission is fulfilled.

The lack or rather illusion of lack appears to be a ‘deficiency’ in three aspects:

1. Love
2. Wisdom
3. Power

Once the earth entity is enabled in these three aspects in fullness, it feels complete. Reworded, the created and The Creator become one.

In my view, the growth or let us say, unveiling, thereby revealing the three aspects, is a process of life in motion, vibrational, we can call it slow seduction if we like, a dance of separation and union. Once we ‘recognise’ what is going on, perhaps it becomes easier to align head and heart with love, ending inner conflict and feeling of separateness, of abandonment, extinguishing fear.

Now, we can debate that if we already are That, to borrow Nisaargadatta’s coined phrase, why all this exercise? The mind can conjure several explanations, each plausible (the one I like is seeing the splendour of our own reflection in a mirror). But what of it? What is, simply is.

[Telepathy01]

Hello! I have been reading the posts on this thread for some time and it's very resourceful for my spiritual practice and I have some questions regarding my path so far.

For some months the "I meditate" in my life had the general impact of making me a little bit more peaceful, more kind, but it never occurred to me that it's still feeding my ego. Never asked myself who is the "I" that meditates, then I started an inquiry of this "I" and since that some things started to fall into place.

A month ago I started to hear something similar to a frequency in my ears, especially the right one, not sure what it is but it doesn't feel like It's perceived by the ears, it isn't bothering and it's usually louder when I'm in a very quiet state.

One night I was meditating, feeling quiet and still, but all of the sudden I felt like my closed eyes perspective changed, like it went deeper, and like my being was deeper, something in my lower part of the body, where the reproductive organ and the lower end of the spine is, opened up, forcefully, it wasn't pleasant but nor disturbing, it's like it was pierced trough. In the next day again, same thing but this time a little bit higher and a lot more intense, from still to a really fast and loud heart beat, this one felt really strong so I was breathing really deep to sustain this intensity and again the same feeling about closed eyes perception. Two nights later my body was vibrating really strong in the lower half, something that I never felt before and is also not easy to describe like an organ pain or something. I could hear the frequency of that vibration really loud, it sounds and feels electrical. The next days I felt like that vibration was being lifted up and it did also reach the brain area, especially where the upper end of spinal cord is and I have headaches from it and pulsations between my eyebrows and forehead. The heart area feels now like a vast empty field that I sometimes fall into when I'm really still.

My question is what is all of this that is happening and is it common or good? I don't give thoughts about these experiences credit or power, I see that the ego wants to form an identity on top of them but I cannot help having questions.

My experiences started happening when I dropped the need to experience, to know, to see. This is the thing that I found the most interesting, just being seems to be all that is needed.

Sorry for this really long first post. I didn't consider starting a thread for something like this. The reason why I used so many words to explain was to be as clear as possible.

Thank you zinnat and thanks to everyone here that shared their words of light.

[Telepathy01]

Hello!

[Unseeking Seeker]

Hello Telepathy!

Welcome to SF!

Give some time to people to respond! :)

Originally Posted by Telepathy01

My experiences started happening when I dropped the need to experience, to know, to see. This is the thing that I found the most interesting, just being seems to be all that is needed.

Part of it is probably because the deeper you get into your practice and the quieter mind becomes the more aware you are of the more subtle thoughts and sensations of the mind-body complex. They are always there but just not often noticed because of all the noise of mind.

By dropping the need to experience do you mean dropping the object of attending (breath, image, mantra, sensation)? If so you might find this interesting.

https://deconstructingyourself.com/d...editation.html

An interesting way to think about experience is from a Self-inquiry perspective. To whom has this experience arisen? To me. Who am I? ... All the way back to the first experience - the experience of the "I" thought.