Meditation, some answers

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 729 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by sky123

Everything we DO is Volition, fancy words or having an Encyclopedia for Breakfast won't alter it..
Obviously we come to a place of happenings rather than doings but that's another story, it's called 'When the time is right'.....

Exactly. Amen !

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

SW is referring to 'Others' observing.

Originally Posted by Gem

Oh. That's weird.

It's not weird.

I was in the steam room at the gym many years ago when it became unbearably hot and everyone left the room .... except me as I decided to meditate on the sensation of heat.

When I came out of meditation, the steam had subsided somewhat and the room was filled with people, including a close friend, who were staring at me in a very concerned manner which was then being replaced by relief. They said that I had been sitting there in the lotus position completely immobile. I was in my bathing suit and they could see no movement whatsoever of any part of the body and no signs of breathing. My friend stated that he had waved his hands wildly in front of my face without getting any reaction.My friend added that he had then put his finger under my nose and could not feel even the slightest trace of breath. The group was afraid to touch me to check for signs of life for fear of putting me into shock and were about to call the front desk for possible medical attention when I came out of it perfectly alert and well. As you can see, I have examined the sensation of breath from many different perspectives.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Oh. That's weird.

No Gem it's actually very easily observed especially with Children, but as SW explained amongst Adults also, nothing weird about it.

[Gem]

Of course what you do is volitional, but lots of doing is unintentional, and sometimes entirely compelled. Since that is the case, I do not equate volition with intention.

Also, one can deliberately stop doing, or relax. That is, you notice tension and cease to do that. You'll find that there are tendencies to generate tension, maybe in the shoulders for example, and especially when experiencing some discomfort we tend to generate more tension. Thus we see how aversion toward the discomfort incites volition which manifests the doing. The root, therefore, is the initial tension between aversion and desire, and meditation is basically the awareness and cessation of that reactivity (awareness has no reactivity).

When you feel impelled to do a mantra, you could self-inquire about the motive so you are aware of the desire/aversion dynamic which has elicited that volition. If you see that playing out; you are already meditating.

Ok, you can disagree now LOL

Originally Posted by Gem

I do not equate volition with intention.

That is precisely the reason why it becomes confusing.

One has to get the basics right to form a complete ontology. If you remember, i have said before in this thread that mind acts in four ways or it has four parts. Imagination, wisdom, memory, ego/action/implementation. if anyone of these qualities are in action, that implies that the mind is in action. And, if the mind is in action, Whatever it does becomes volition automatically.

What you are considering intent is actually a combination of first three qualities of the mind- imagination, wisdom and memory. So the mind is very much in action.

Philosophically speaking, enabling mind into a non-volition state in oxymoron. What you are trying to say that you are trying to not to do anything. That is not logically possible. As long as you keep trying to do/accomplish anything, you have to do something in one way or other and that negates the possibility of doing nothing. So, the stage of not doing anything at all has to happen on its own in due course.

One more point here. Being the part of the ultimate reality/The God, both of consciousness and mind are eternal. Mind will never stop thinking and consciousness will never stop feeling those thinking. If one can somehow stop his/her mind from thinking completely even for some seconds, it will realize the true nature of consciousness and that is enlightenment. But, that stage is yet far away. Perhaps, next some posts will make this issue clearer.

I think that enough has been said about this issue so i will continue with the thread from the next post.

with love,
sanjay

[Gem]

Originally Posted by zinnat

What you are trying to say...

(I am not trying to say something other than I said).

that you are trying to not to do anything.

I didn't say try not to do anything. I said you become conscious of what you are doing and cease doing that. It's like when you want to relax and you notice tension in your body, you don't try to stop generating tension. It's the other way round. You stop trying to generate it.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

you don't try to stop generating tension. It's the other way round. You stop trying to generate it.

What is the ' it ' you stop trying to generate ?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Ok, you can disagree now LOL

If you have a you could be 'Attached' to your personal beliefs

[Gem]

Originally Posted by zinnat

That is precisely the reason why it becomes confusing.

I thought people seemed a bit confused, so I explained it. However, I think you were busy asserting what I was trying to say and couldn't hear what I really said.

Imagination, wisdom, memory, ego/action/implementation.

I think there's relationship between meditation, insight, understanding and wisdom. I consider intent to be how one directs the intention, it is imagining 'I want to see it as it is', and I claim being ardent for the truth lights the way.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

What is the ' it ' you stop trying to generate ?

Reactive tension between aversion and desire.