GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The Michael Newton book is indeed excellent and, as you duly noted, it does not in any way lead to the conclusion that there is no God or no higher power.

Well said.

In one thread here people were talking about evolution verses a "god" making things and so I did a bunch of google searches. Turns out a lot of modern science and scientists have determined intelligent design exists. Modern science's exploration in advanced mathematics and species DNA and the bio sciences have determined statistically it is impossible for the design they are seeing to have happened from only evolution or random mutations. I won't go into the science too much, but basically there was a huge spike in species during one time period and the DNA changes are mathematically impossible to have happened without some "force" or intelligence ordering them, choosing a certain order in the complexity of the DNA chains. Even life itself is statistically impossible to have happened in any sort of random way when one looks at the number of combinations possible.

The funny part is one leading scientist wrote a paper saying modern science has proven a "god" but the troubling part for him was this "god" apparently makes mistakes, species that die off, diseases that attack the species, illness and on and on. It was funny because our cultures are so locked into this idea it is evolution, without cause, or an all knowing, all powerful old man on a cloud. We are so brainwashed into only imagining these two possibilities. The first thing I thought was, of course there are mistakes based on what that book reveals. There are mistakes because we are the creators!

But like I said, we don't create the "raw materials." Some much more advanced intelligence or intelligences are behind that. We just create out of what we find and figure out. Like we found sand, figured out how to create glass out of it. Between lives, we find various energies, figure out how to make stuff out of them. Apparently, that includes planets and life forms. "God" or this mysterious intelligent force, is still there behind all of this, providing the raw materials we create out of.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by inavalan

The way I see, what we believe / think matters the most.

From the few JC quotes I read in this thread, if he existed, he was largely misinterpreted, because of the symbolism he used. Why did he used that symbolism instead of straight talk? One can only speculate.

We are here neither to treat others well, nor to love them, but to practice creating reality.

I suspect the reason why Jesus talked the way he did was because he had certain people like the Pharisees who were looking for any excuse to have him arrested and executed.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

In one thread here people were talking about evolution verses a "god" making things and so I did a bunch of google searches. Turns out a lot of modern science and scientists have determined intelligent design exists. Modern science's exploration in advanced mathematics and species DNA and the bio sciences have determined statistically it is impossible for the design they are seeing to have happened from only evolution or random mutations. I won't go into the science too much, but basically there was a huge spike in species during one time period and the DNA changes are mathematically impossible to have happened without some "force" or intelligence ordering them, choosing a certain order in the complexity of the DNA chains. Even life itself is statistically impossible to have happened in any sort of random way when one looks at the number of combinations possible.

The funny part is one leading scientist wrote a paper saying modern science has proven a "god" but the troubling part for him was this "god" apparently makes mistakes, species that die off, diseases that attack the species, illness and on and on. It was funny because our cultures are so locked into this idea it is evolution, without cause, or an all knowing, all powerful old man on a cloud. We are so brainwashed into only imagining these two possibilities. The first thing I thought was, of course there are mistakes based on what that book reveals. There are mistakes because we are the creators!

But like I said, we don't create the "raw materials." Some much more advanced intelligence or intelligences are behind that. We just create out of what we find and figure out. Like we found sand, figured out how to create glass out of it. Between lives, we find various energies, figure out how to make stuff out of them. Apparently, that includes planets and life forms. "God" or this mysterious intelligent force, is still there behind all of this, providing the raw materials we create out of.

'

How do you envision this appearance where "we are the creators", as you stated in your post ? How do you envision the process?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I suspect the reason why Jesus talked the way he did was because he had certain people like the Pharisees who were looking for any excuse to have him arrested and executed.

You may be right. If JC had stated simply and plainly his teachings, he still wouldn't have been understood, believed, followed by most of those who don't understand his symbolism.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by inavalan

You may be right. If JC had stated simply and plainly his teachings, he still wouldn't have been understood, believed, followed by most of those who don't understand his symbolism.

can you imagine Jesus teaching the Pharisees he was the first born of creation and everything else was created by him?

Even today, most people have a hard time swallowing that belief.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

'

How do you envision this appearance where "we are the creators", as you stated in your post ? How do you envision the process?

It is like we create / generate our dreams. They aren't perfect. We aren't perfect.

We care about the well-being of us-as-dream-characters only as much as that leaves us with a bad afterthought when we wake up.

Suggestion: If we paid more attention to the well-being of us-as-dream-characters, our inner-selves who dream us would start paying more attention to the well-being of us-as-awake-characters.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

can you imagine Jesus teaching the Pharisees he was the first born of creation and everything else was created by him?

Even today, most people have a hard time swallowing that belief.

Only hard to swallow for those who have an obstruction

Originally Posted by BigJohn

can you imagine Jesus teaching the Pharisees he was the first born of creation and everything else was created by him?

Even today, most people have a hard time swallowing that belief.

bigJohn,

We must rest in the knowledge that if Jesus is God He knows what we capable of believing.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

bigJohn,

We must rest in the knowledge that if Jesus is God He knows what we capable of believing.

So true...

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

can you imagine Jesus teaching the Pharisees he was the first born of creation and everything else was created by him?

Even today, most people have a hard time swallowing that belief.

I'm not sure that JC put himself higher than the others in the way it is presented.

He may have said that he created this (his) reality in the way each one of us creates our own realities, the difference being that, as far as he knew, he was the only one (the first) realizing that he does it, while those to whom he was preaching didn't realize (yet).

How he got this knowledge / ideas is subject of speculation. Some say that he may have learned from some Far Eastern teaching how to get in trance (meditate). This allowed him to get in touch with his inner source of knowledge and guidance (maybe what is called the Holly Ghost), his inner-self being his Father.

Disclaimer: It isn't my intention to offend any faithful, I just express opinions, mostly based on my spiritual aha-s. You BigJohn, by opening this discussion, brought to my attention some direct quotes from JC' teachings, and they were a revelation for me. Thanks.