GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

...
In the end, I don't think what one believes matters, it's how we treat others. It's always about love and I think that was what Jesus was about.

The way I see, what we believe / think matters the most.

From the few JC quotes I read in this thread, if he existed, he was largely misinterpreted, because of the symbolism he used. Why did he used that symbolism instead of straight talk? One can only speculate.

We are here neither to treat others well, nor to love them, but to practice creating reality.

[inavalan]

google says:

Different gnostics believed different things about the death and resurrection of Jesus. But some were people, whom we know as docetists, [who] believed that the death and suffering of Jesus were things that only appeared to happen, or if they happened, didn't really happen to the core of Jesus' spiritual reality.

This makes sense.

[django]

The actual Thomas the apostle is believed to have founded a Church in Kerala India in AD52.

Since the second world war, theologians have become increasingly aware of the Jewishness of Jesus and his first disciples: it has become apparent, for example, that the first Christians of the early church- those who knew Jesus and his teaching personally - would have carried on going to the temple in Jerusalem, performing sacrifices and circumcisions, and obeying the Jewish food laws.

If St Thomas had carried Christianity to India, it is likely that he would have taken a distinctly more Jewish form than the Gentile-friendly version developed for the Greeks of Antioch by St Paul and later exported to Europe. Hence the importance of the fact that some of the St Thomas Christian churches [in India] to this day retain Judeo-Christian practices long dropped in the west - such as the celebration of the solemn Passover feast.

I was in India many years ago but didn’t know about the Thomas Christians then, and I wasn’t into Christianity then anyway, but I’d love to visit that area now.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by django

The actual Thomas the apostle is believed to have founded a Church in Kerala India in AD52.



I was in India many years ago but didn’t know about the Thomas Christians then, and I wasn’t into Christianity then anyway, but I’d love to visit that area now.

This must be that one (but I guess I've already looked it up); map, photos, videos, 360 degree view:

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en...JPzKe41Q9znAad

[django]

Yes invalan, I reckon that would be the one.

I was just thinking, Know thyself is not exclusive to gnostic Christianity anyway, these words were after all carved into the ancient Delphi temple, and this maxim was the basis of many Greek philosophers ideas.

Even early Orthodox Christians asserted the need to know oneself, for example

“Gregory of Nissa (De mortuis non esse dolendum 9.40) suggests that turning one’s gaze inward is the only way to bring to light one’s real essence, while looking to the outside makes such task impossible (γνῶθι σεαυτὸν ἀκριβῶς τίς εἶ, διαστείλας τῷ λογισμῷ τί μὲν ἀληθῶς εἶ σύ, τί δὲ περὶ σὲ καθορᾶται. Μήποτε τὰ ἔξω σοῦ βλέπων σεαυτὸν καθορᾶν νομίσῃς).
A variant inspired by Neopythagorean thought reads as γνῶθι θεόν, ἵνα γνῷς καὶ σαυτόν, “know God to know yourself too”, (Sententiae Sexti 577 Chadwick). This version appears in extended form in the treatise Ad imaginem Dei et ad similitudinem (normally ascribed to Gregory of Nissa): “If you want to know God, you must first know yourself. Start with understanding yourself, your way of being, your inner self. Come into [your inner self] and immerse yourself in yourself gazing into your soul.”

Gregory of Nyssa was bishop of Nyssa from 372 to 376 and from 378 until his death. He is venerated as a saint in Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Anglicanism.

This idea that gnosis is antithetical to the church doesn’t hold up to Christians who can combine the search into the Self with orthodoxy, anyway even in the bible itself it is recorded that Jesus said seek the kingdom within.

But jesus also said other things which gnostic Christians conveniently ignore, most importantly imo to do the will of the Father. Gnostics I believe have faith in their own will, and this is a major stumbling block for those drawn to Christian Gnosticism.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by inavalan

It seems that my beliefs rub you the wrong way. Just stick with "never mind": ignore me.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm just having a hard time understanding why you won't apply your own beliefs to yourself. i'll get over it eventually though.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I'm not ignoring you. I'm just having a hard time understanding why you won't apply your own beliefs to yourself. i'll get over it eventually though.

I think I do.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

In the book "Journey Of Souls" by Michael Newton, Newton does hypnotic regression on people to get them to access memories of time between lives. They report we made the earth and all living things on it from the dimension between physical lives. Thus, the "mistakes" and imperfection. This in no way leads to a conclusion of no "god" however as they also report they are very aware of a powerful source and intelligence behind all reality and phenomena.

If 'they made the earth and all living things ", who made them?

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Jesus did not write the old testament, and I'm not sure he ever talked about what created the earth. I have no idea if the subject is in the Gospel Of Thomas either.

Jesus spoke about his existence before he became human. John 17:5 which reads:

And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

He existed before the World was created. The scriptures claim he was the first born of creation and all things were created by him.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

If 'they made the earth and all living things ", who made them?

It's similar to how we as humans can make a new human. In the non-physical dimension, we can make new souls. Also just like how we can't make a physical body "from scratch" we are just using the bodies reproductive system we did not make or design, likewise, in the non-physical dimension we use a similar system to create a new soul while not being the designers or creators of the energies/methods used. One always has the sense of "something" or "someone" vastly more aware and intelligent than us.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

In the book "Journey Of Souls" by Michael Newton, Newton does hypnotic regression on people to get them to access memories of time between lives. They report we made the earth and all living things on it from the dimension between physical lives. Thus, the "mistakes" and imperfection. This in no way leads to a conclusion of no "god" however as they also report they are very aware of a powerful source and intelligence behind all reality and phenomena.

Jesus did not write the old testament, and I'm not sure he ever talked about what created the earth. I have no idea if the subject is in the Gospel Of Thomas either.

The Michael Newton book is indeed excellent and, as you duly noted, it does not in any way lead to the conclusion that there is no God or no higher power.

Well said.