Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 24-10-2021, 01:39 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
  Still_Waters's Avatar
QUOTE 8 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat

Perhaps the middle way combined with self-discipline is the best approach. Self-discipline may be painful to begin with but it then becomes a freedom.


Well said !

I've noticed that, with mindful meditative living, one can get enlightening revelations from virtually anyone and anything. Didn't the Buddha discover the "Middle Path" by overhearing a conversation between a musician and his student regarding neither having the strings of the musical instrument too tight nor too loose?

Regarding austerities such as sensory deprivation, fasting, and so on, here is an interesting article about the hallucinatory experiences that can be induced by such practices. The section on " Artificially Inducing Mystical Experiences of God" is particularly interesting.

http://www.humanreligions.info/hallu....html#Mystical
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24-10-2021, 03:06 PM
Hologram8 Hologram8 is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Spirit world
Posts: 912
  Hologram8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyCrystal
What makes you think it is necessary?
I don't think it's necessary ~
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24-10-2021, 03:50 PM
NoOne NoOne is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,265
 
It's really not necessary, more like a hindrance in fact. This was one of the great discoveries of the Buddha. He tried being and ascetic and quickly realised it doesn't work. What actually works is moderation in all things. You need to take care of the basics though.

However, it is true that mystical experiences can be had through extreme deprivation, especially starving oneself. These are more along the line of hallucinations though and I'm not so sure they're actually helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24-10-2021, 05:19 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 24,946
  Miss Hepburn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOne
...However, it is true that mystical experiences can be had through extreme deprivation, especially starving oneself.
These are more along the line of hallucinations though and I'm not so sure they're actually helpful.
I don't know about 'starving', but I do have exp in many days of fasting for one purpose, one intention -
a spiritual one, of course.
And gotta say...it works.
It's just a technique of slowing down and focusing, centering, getting in touch with your sincerity.
No hallucinations, for me... but, much profound clarity and insight is had.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24-10-2021, 05:28 PM
NoOne NoOne is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,265
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I don't know about 'starving', but I do have exp in many days of fasting for one purpose, one intention -
a spiritual one, of course.
And gotta say...it works.
It's just a technique of slowing down and focusing, centering, getting in touch with your sincerity.
No hallucinations, for me... but, much profound clarity and insight is had.

Well, traditional ascetics might have gone weeks without food. There was the famous 40 days and nights in the desert for Jesus and many Christian Mystics did this too, as do many native Americans even today. To me, that is starving.

Fasting in my case amounts to skipping a meal... I wouldn't go any further unless there was a war going on...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 24-10-2021, 06:24 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyCrystal
What makes you think it is necessary? ... we are supposed to honour our bodies, NOT damage and hurt them.
I think this whole asceticism concept was created by church as another means to keep people small, to stop them from reaching a higher vibration as church wanted to be the one and only channel for the higher vibration.

I suggest that the ascetic tradition in the East long pre-dates the Christian Church. The Church added the concept that we are all miserable sinners, hence all the self-punishment. True asceticism is not about punishing the body - as you say, the body is to be honoured as the temple of the Divine.

And we should bear in mind that one person's asceticism may be another person's normality. A simple example - I choose not to eat anything with added sugars. So an apple is fine, but not cakes, biscuits, etc. It also means checking the labels of any food I buy (e.g. a loaf of bread) in case there is some form of sugar in there. Some people might regard this as self-denial, but for me it is quite normal and there is no hardship in avoiding sugar.

Peace
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24-10-2021, 06:46 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Regarding austerities such as sensory deprivation, fasting, and so on, here is an interesting article about the hallucinatory experiences that can be induced by such practices. The section on " Artificially Inducing Mystical Experiences of God" is particularly interesting.

Thanks. An interesting read, although I would dispute some of the claims, such as:

We know that electromagnetic activity in the brain is absolutely tied up with our own self, thoughts and consciousness, and this is further evidence (aside from history, psychology, etc) that the experience of many mystical things and god has a basis in physiological cause and effect, with the physical cause preceding the experience.

And I would suggest that fasting and sensory deprivation reduces the bond between consciousness and the physical body while opening us up to the astral realms.

Peace
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25-10-2021, 12:25 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
  Still_Waters's Avatar
QUOTE 17 EXCERPT:[quote=iamthat]Thanks. An interesting read, although I would dispute some of the claims, such as:/QUOTE]I too found it an interesting read and, like yourself, I didn't buy into everything in the article either. Nonetheless, it is interesting food for thought.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25-10-2021, 12:33 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
  Still_Waters's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOne
It's really not necessary, more like a hindrance in fact. This was one of the great discoveries of the Buddha. He tried being and ascetic and quickly realised it doesn't work. What actually works is moderation in all things. You need to take care of the basics though.

However, it is true that mystical experiences can be had through extreme deprivation, especially starving oneself. These are more along the line of hallucinations though and I'm not so sure they're actually helpful.

I'm in general agreement with you though there are exceptions to every rule, as Miss Hepburn duly noted.

In Zen Buddhism, there is the famous saying to simply stay in the present and do what is necessary in life. ("I chop wood; I carry water.") Other Zen masters have spoken similarly when they say that they sleep when tired and eat when hungry. That seems quite natural.

Asceticism has never appealed to me. You correctly cited the case of the Buddha. I believe St. Francis of Assisi practiced extreme ascetism at one time but switched to a more moderate approach in treating his body.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25-10-2021, 03:07 PM
Molearner Molearner is offline
Master
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,460
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I don't know about 'starving', but I do have exp in many days of fasting for one purpose, one intention -
a spiritual one, of course.
:

Miss Hepburn,

IMO meditation is the premier form of fasting as that it can be done daily and become an important part of the rhythm of life.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums