Lets do an experiment

[Horse]

I just remembered something odd that happened years ago. There was a party at my house, and the next morning this girl (my brothers friend, I didn't really know her) who was pretty eccentric and strange told me that I was in her room hovering over her bed the night before. She was completely convinced, she was like "yep, it was you, you were in my room last night hovering above my bed". I don't know what the hell was wrong with me, but I just decided to make fun of her in a cruel way rather than ask her more about it. The night before I did have a lucid dream where I was in my house and searched the bedrooms. I half made the connection that maybe I was astral traveling. I wish I had asked her more about it, maybe she was psychic and could see astral phenomena etc. The thing is though, I've had plenty of these lucid dream experiences where I tested it out to see if it was an astral projection, and I've never been convinced that it was anything other than a dream. The people who I run into can always see me, and interact with me.

[astralsuzy]

I see what you mean. Sometimes we may not be that aware and it can feel like a dream. You might wake up and think was it real. Some of my ap experiences are not that great. I have had brilliant experiences where I was extremely aware and I could see the buildings, the sky, the landscape and I could feel the wind as I was flying by. You could say that it was not real. I am convinced that ap is real because I have had experiences where I could feel myself moving out of my body. You could say it was a dream. I was awake and aware. My husband would say it was a dream.

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by Barnacle

I just remembered something odd that happened years ago. There was a party at my house, and the next morning this girl (my brothers friend, I didn't really know her) who was pretty eccentric and strange told me that I was in her room hovering over her bed the night before. She was completely convinced, she was like "yep, it was you, you were in my room last night hovering above my bed". I don't know what the hell was wrong with me, but I just decided to make fun of her in a cruel way rather than ask her more about it. The night before I did have a lucid dream where I was in my house and searched the bedrooms. I half made the connection that maybe I was astral traveling. I wish I had asked her more about it, maybe she was psychic and could see astral phenomena etc. The thing is though, I've had plenty of these lucid dream experiences where I tested it out to see if it was an astral projection, and I've never been convinced that it was anything other than a dream. The people who I run into can always see me, and interact with me.

The only person who can reliably judge if it is, or isn't a dream, is you. You know the difference between being in a dream, and being focused, conscious and awake.

I've had lots of lucid dreams where the "light bulb" goes on and there's that sudden awareness that I'm dreaming. Now what happens to me then is nothing like a dream. Usually, straight away after that moment, the dream scenario completely disappears, and instead I'm fully awake, but going out of body just above my bed.

Now (in my experience anyway) there can sometimes be variations in the level of conscious awareness. I might leave my body in a completely conscious state, get half way across my room, and lose the whole plot, and start dreaming again! I can feel everything slipping...from consciousness, to awareness again that I'm dreaming, to muzziness, to a full blown dream that I have no ability to direct. This usually ends with me waking up a little while later, frustrated slightly that my awareness slipped, but with a vivid dream. But from the moment I lose it I can never count that as an astral projection. Simply because I can compare it to an actual astral projection or OBE...and the two feel very different to me.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

I'm not trying to shot holes, there are already enough of them, but there is two side of every story, and I am only sharing my side, this is an experiment thread, not a dogmatic fundamentalist know all thread, give me proff, that is what I am after, scientific proff, if you can then I may think twice about what I have said.

I have already said that nobody is ever going to be able to give you one shred of evidence that proves or disproves astral projection. There are dozens of forums for people who don't believe in astral projection where you can share your thoughts with other people who haven't ever experienced astral projection and lack the knowledge to understand or know that it exists. There are no holes that exist in astral projection, only holes in your own personal opinion and beliefs of what astral projection is or isn't. Just because someone can't prove something to another person doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. When I was young I wouldn't of believed in astral projection either but thankfully age and experience have taught and shown me that it truly does exist. Vaguely speaking these forums are for people to share information and stories regarding astral projection, not for an open debate between the people who know the truth about astral projection and those who don't. There are countless other forums where you could attempt to shoot holes in things you haven't experienced with people in the same boat instead of attempting to belittle what others have experienced on these forums.

The only person that can prove or disprove astral projection to someone is their own self. Astral projection does not occur in the physical dimension and so it is impossible for someone to perform any test in the physical world to prove or disprove astral projection to the next person. To perform a test similar to what you have asked would require a totally different skill, that skill is called Remote Viewing. If you want to know if astral projection is real then you are going to have to put in the work to ensure that you experience for yourself. Someone who hasn't experienced it for themselves doesn't have the experience or the knowledge to have a realistic point of view in the debate whether astral projection exists or doesn't. There are a lot of intangible things in this world that have been proven to exist that hundreds or even dozens of years ago people said didn't and couldn't exist. Physicists have theorized that multiple dimensions exist and they are some of the most intelligent and educated people in the world. You are free to believe whatever your heart desires but someone who hasn't ever experienced astral projection for themselves only has an opinion, and opinions are single-minded and usually are what has holes.

So instead of someone unfoundedly discrediting something they have never experienced they should experience it for themselves and then they will begin to have the right and the knowledge to pass judgment. Until they do that they are only providing a baseless opinion and making it look as if they have nothing better to do than try and discredit what others experience has shown them. So I challenge you to fully experience astral projection for yourself and then I would be interested in hearing your opinion. By fully I don't mean one or two short projections, I mean full-blown astral experiences traveling from one plane to another, consorting with a multitude of different spiritual beings, and development of astral skills. Until a person has experienced those sort of things in the astral it's impossible for them to make a realistic judgment whether astral projection is real or not.

[psychoslice]

I am not discrediting anyone, all i want is prof, simple, if you cannot prove it then say nothing. When we experiment with something we want prof that what we are doing is correct, if not then its not an experiment, its just faith in what you believe.

[CrystalSong]

Why would anyone need to prove anything to you? The burden of proof or lack of proof is upon you since your the one needing to know. Plenty of people in this forum have their own proof on astro-projection... if you want it astro-project and get it. ;D

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Why would anyone need to prove anything to you? The burden of proof or lack of proof is upon you since your the one needing to know. Plenty of people in this forum have their own proof on astro-projection... if you want it astro-project and get it. ;D

I really don't care if its true or not, your the one who keeps coming back saying you cannot prove it, for me if you can't then you can't, you don't have to go into a big lecture about how it can't be proven, just admit youn can't prove it and leave it at that , maybe someone else might be able to prove it, who knows.

[Tobi]

Psychoslice...I know this is wildly off-topic, but I like that gorgeous young guy on your avatar....

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Psychoslice...I know this is wildly off-topic, but I like that gorgeous young guy on your avatar....

He He, that's me when In was much younger, or was that me when Im was much older, because right now I am younger than I have ever been, think about that lol.

[Tobi]

What's time anyway? I was older when I was 18 than I am now. I wouldn't want to go back