How would you have reacted?

LOL, thank you, yes I will try to watch that episode, sounds fun! Hum...yes it def does change a bit with age that metabolism, hi hi, has come as a surprise to me too.

I can imagine too it is good that she has that kind of physical work considering her energy, that it suits her fine?

(Edited, deleted a part) On the surface I would say he can look as if he is insensitive but I can tell he is sensitive underneath, and the moment I saw that, and with the tender in his eyes, I fell hard and I fell fast. It was just this moment that took my breath away as he was so beautiful to me, from the inside out, that I almost felt my knees wobble, took my breath away. There has been lots of times over time when I have just waited for him and he comes around the corner or I look up and I see him and he still took my breath away and I thought Jesus what is this? That it should not happen so long afterwards when you've been a couple for that long.

(edited, deleted another part)
It took me by surprise when he would disconnect from me as soon as we were to be with his family etc, because he would not do that with my company, from before. Too why I did not understand what was going on and I felt even more exposed. I missed his connection. Today he says he will really think about it and not shut off, shut down like that, and put me first. He has proven now so far even if it is quite early that he stays connected with me,(YEAH!:) and his ears and eyes ready in the moment, and not go into his own world.

It is a terrible feeling for me when I feel he has disconnected from me. I don't know what to do then. He does no communication then at all.

He has himself said that he is sorry about that and did not know how it made me feel.

That could be why too when the narc parent tried to quilt trip him somehow, making it think it was his duty to be without me, could have backfired.

When he has been off to other things with other people he will return saying that he missed me and that he would think stuff like oh my wife would enjoy this, and that we should go here sometime.

He has said he think I am funny and that he has never felt as relaxed and good with anyone else. We found each other early, humor wise and exciting wise, and just connected very fast, it felt as if it was mutual even if he had to lead the way, and then somehow it was as if we had always known each other even if we didn't.

Before it started going bad people assumed we had been a couple for a longer period of time because we seemed so close, I remember my family said that straight off when too asking how long I had seen this guy (as if they didn't know that?;). There was a strong sense of harmony too between us. His sibling would say we seemed to still be so in love even so long after when it was taken for granted we shouldn't still be there at that stage.

When I one time asked my husband if he had ever been in love with me and would tell him the symptoms he only chose one of them and I thought God he is not in love with me is he. He then said that no, he did not think he had been in love with me but that he had jumped straight "to loving you instead". He divided those 2 stages. He would say he could not understand when people would talk about being in love and that he did not think he had ever been in love, when he talked like that I remember feeling almost as if I could not breath and would not let anything show but on the inside I thought oh no he's not in love with me. While I had all the signs I was in love with him. He would just say no, it hasn't happened to me.

Even if I did not talk about his sensitivity I did see it, and I suppose I thought I had found my kindred spirit as I have always known, and too struggled at times with my own high sensitivity.

I knew that some people, especially when I was younger, were to me too cruel and too insensitive, and that would scare me even more, and I would withdraw into my shell. I was shy too. My husband said he understood that early that I was shy and thought he had to move slow even if he wanted to speed away as he thought it was so good between us. He can be considerate too, thank God, and not just say stuff that I think can come off as inconsiderate.

Finally now it is as if he is allowing his sensitivity to come through the right way though.

I will def joke with him like you said, he will laugh, I can imagine :)

[Izz]

Originally Posted by asearcher

He has said he think I am funny and that he has never felt as relaxed and good with anyone else. We found each other early, humor wise and exciting wise, and just connected very fast

That is beautiful the spark and humor

Btw asearcher I tried sending you another PM but your inbox is full again I think?

Thank you Izz :) (edited my answer below)

The way I think is that both the good and the bad is true about him, us.

It has helped me also to know that it was not me who was "so sensitive" but had perfectly normal reactions to when he did not treat me right or the situation with his parent right. Or the situation that escalated that day at his work. And other things.

I don't excuse his behavior, but if autism was behind it I can then understand the reasons behind them were not meant to always be hurtful, wrong.

That don't mean that he has been this misunderstood person who has been innocent al along, every time.


PS I'm gonna clean my inbox now, sorry.

Thought some more:

There were times he perfectly well knew what he was doing, he has gone overboard with his temper, what he has said and done, and removed himself from the situation and would later be washed over by feelings of quilt and trying to make a mends and apologize.

He would go first of all to attack and then become submissive. (That is actually not uncommon for those individuals who are violent to their partners, they can have such intense feeling of quilt afterwards and it can too confuse the victim. Then I bet there are those individuals out there who just fake it. Then there are of course those individuals who don't feel guilt etc and stay in that reality of theirs all way through).

He would say he did not have that kind of temper with other people (and he hasn't, he won't loose his cool with others, and never around his kids). he thought he had it with me because he said I challenged him and he felt he was loosing me and did not understand why and it made him very angry when he thought he was a good husband but either way I was not happy, that he was not good enough for me.

About his ex he did not have that kind of temper, I finally asked.So with that reply I felt really more isolated in these experiences with his temper going off like that, and figured if I was that much of a trigger for him than I couldn't be the one, after all.

I was then told that he had more emotional investment in our relationship, with me, than with other people, and that this was part of the reason why his temper was like that with me alone.

I can only say that when he made that shift that it was as if there was very little space first of all of my feelings during the fight and then afterwards when everything was suppose to caught up with me - again - there was no room for my feelings or really for privacy, space - as he was then anxious, intense, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat. If I thought I looked bad the next morning he had to look worse (no face color etc).

Throughout it was as if I became someone who knew I had to stay calm, I had to watch what I said and how I said it as his reactions were generally stronger than mine initially.He took for granted I did not have a temper such as his, and sort of like I would take care of this: I would somehow land us. It was not a good pattern.

He would many times think that I was the one who started the fight, and not him.

At the same time he would be in denial of our issues and say he did not think they were so bad and that I had to think of everything else good we had going, and he then sort of made it look as if I thought it was bad, and he didn't, then that had to do with my sensitivity and I just had to learn how to shake it off.

It was as if he again did not understand that a two some is a two some, if one suffer the other one suffer when it is about marital issues and what we had were marital issues. It was not as if it was something separate I was going through at work or what ever.

So when I would tell him I thought we needed family counseling because this was not working for me, he would tell me that he knew what was going to become of that. He would have to sit there and be the villain and he had already said he was sorry about stuff in the past and why could I then not just forgive him and move on? That he thought why I took it so bad was because I had a baggage with me, earlier experiences. Again I would tell him that yes, it had not been easy at times before in my past, but that was not what was bothering me now, why I thought I was sad right now, that that had to do with us, situations we needed help fixing.

But he would still tell me that no he would refuse to go, he did not believe that anyone could help us but if I did I should go alone (because he too did not think we had that serious problems). Again it was as if he sort of ran solo when we were suppose to be a team, together. I told him I had never heard of couple or family counseling where just one shows up. One is suppose to do it together.

If I did not know it before it stood clear to me too that he was not at all comfortable talking about his feelings etc. That was not at all how he had been raised. And for him to tell an outsider of this. Trust an outsider? No way.

I think lots of his objections, hesitation came from him having been brought up in a narc household. They were suppose to be perfect, they were suppose to be superior. They were not suppose to have any problems. Even when the rest of the family would be sick and not the narc parent, they were not allowed to be sick, sort off. As if it was a sign of weakness. And now he was suppose to be dragged to counseling, when he had always been taught to say we don't have any problems. We're good.

He had also been told apparently by the narc parent that I was someone very sensitive, fragile, so I think that made him view me that way even more so maybe than before. So again that it was me making a big deal out of nothing. I felt alone in my pain, I was not being understood, and I withdrew. And I think he felt that withdrawal and that was what was starting to freak him out. Still everything fine (on the surface).

I have told him that if he had only listened to me the first time I told him I thought we needed family counseling then I would have been so much stronger and positive and it would not have ended up with, I think, me telling him our marriage was over.

Then again I myself was responsible for not getting myself out of a toxic situation that was instead eating me up from the inside while everything looked perfect on the outside, and with a husband that did not understand. I felt confused to tell the truth because I could see his good qualities, but I could also see where he, by my book, faulted. I guess I thought just a little bit more, just a little bit longer, and keep on trying. It's never good to stay too long in an unhealthy situation with no map on how to get out, where to go and I did. I should have put on the breaks sooner. It really felt like uphill once I was instead telling him it was over, to him first then telling me he was begging for a new chance and for us to do counseling together. First I told him he showed up too late for the "party" but said I was open for family counseling (me thinking now we had to collaborate in the co parenting field and make the best of that and thought there counseling could help us). But then he convinced me to at least try to pull myself through counseling as a couple (but this couple was still "on ice").

The counseling I had chosen was from my perspective the right one to take. It was constructed after how serious problems I thought we had .

Now my husband was used to that nothing passed him by, that if things were going to be arranged he was going to arrange them and stay on top of them and follow them through.

It has been difficult before when we were suppose to do something together, as I could tell he wanted to take over, and he would try to joke, but sort of put me down, my suggestions, while doing so, and other things, just so he could get his hands on the project alone.

So the stuff that the experts would recommend - that you would do things together, that was not working for us, because our project would become his project. And I knew this from before. And it was only one way to do it right and that was his way. That I would tell him you can do things in a different way or ways, and you don't have to start there, you can start over here, if you want to, as long as the end result is the same, that don't matter. He was like: NO. This is where you start, these are the steps and this is when you are finished.
This could be about a lot of things. I would before been the kind to then give up and say you know what, I don't care what order we do this, we can do it your order, it doesn't matter. So me going to give in had suited him well in the past.

I think that too is part of his autism, that he excluded me, that he did not quite know how to do team-work. That it had to be his way.

I could also tell many times once he got our project, what ever it now was, to be his project. I learned that it was I think his way of showing his love for me. So he would have planned everything out and done everything and so he thought in the meanwhile I did not have to bother myself with it. That was how he thought. Leave it to me, I'll take care of it, I'll take care of you. That was how I think he saw it. (But too I would think he don't trust me to do enough of a good job, so this is why).

I can't say how many mornings I have woken up and found out he must have been up later or up in the middle of the night or something to arrange for everything to be done and ready for me, us the next morning. If lets say I had forgotten to charge my cell phone, then that was already done. He would just leave things like that for me, ready, and never even mention it.

When we were suppose to do things together, we could start up things together but the way it always became of that is that he was such a quick learner and he was so focused and so on, that I would be left behind.

He would try to "go down a level" to where I "still" was, but I could see even if he had a tender, humble way about him, understanding he had now passed me. I could never keep up, just never. It did not matter what it was. He would tell me he still wanted us to do it, but how much fun is it in the long run when you know he was always so much better at everything and I was dragging him down?

Anyways so when I introduced the whole family crises counseling program he would tell me he thought that was a cheap set up and a push for me to divorce him, that it was against him, and if I could just please allow him to find another therapy, sessions? He was very suspicious and it was not easy for him to let go of control. If anything I think he wanted to be the counselor and not any of us.

He said too that he did not think it was fair the short amount of time before our decision considering how long we had been a couple and that we were a family on top of that, telling me we needed more time than the counseling program I had found. He would tell me he had invested too much to have some cheap no good counselor snatch it right in front of him or something of the kind. At the time I thought God, he is comparing me to a business deal...At the same time I understood he was not as run down as I was, and he didn't want this apparently when it came around to it.

For 2 years from the time I first told him I thought we needed professional help with some of our issues to the time when I told him I gave up I came nowhere. 2 years. Many mornings when I left the home and had sunglasses on me the tears would just stream down, and I knew this so I would put mascara on just before work. 2 years. He left me hanging for 2 years.

I sometimes wonder about some of those who say they were totally surprised when their partner left them if that is truly the case, if there were no warning signs or plead for help before. If that is really true. I think there had to be but some of them did not take it serious, and then it got to be too late, the other one got exhausted from waiting, hanging there and finally just let go.

He then returned with some never ending story for therapy lessons, those days online etc. I accepted that program. He would be full of energy to discuss matters while I had nearly no energy and very little patience to discuss anything. I would tell him again and again that I was run down.

I have thought now as of lately if I should just show up at his work to show we're a team now even if it is a little bit too late?

I know from before that I have withdrawn from him and I suppose that is when I feel he has either taken over, or is better at things, or like when that female colleague acted like that.

That instead of me withdrawing I should be firm in just being like I was before my withdrawing somehow?

He has tried to access my work several times from that occasions while I just refused to return except for when I simply had to. Maybe has nothing to do with her or not but more that I show him that I am now back in the game and for him to try to show me he's not who he used to be too, ignoring me?

He has told me it don't matter if someone tries something or not and even when he speaks like that he is humble or neutral, not like he thinks he is all that (not like his narc parent). Anyways he says it don't matter because nothing will come of it unless the guy acts on it, and that he won't act on it.

I guess my husband is triggering stuff from my childhood as well, my background and stuff, when that is not at all his fault (my dad cheating on my mom). He's not guilty of everything.

One other thing I have thought about in the past how he was at social settings was this:

He had been taught that he was not and I was not suppose to show any sort of sign that we were a couple.

We were not allowed to touch each other. We were not allowed to talk to each other in a specific way.

He did not communicate with me that that is how he had been raised and what he believed was right. He only ran it his way.

I realized my feelings for him was dropping and I saw him only as a friend or a co parent if we were in any social gathering.

It was so bad that people did not understand we were a couple, a family even. We were that detached from each other.

However at bars, nightclubs, those sort of settings, he was trying to show all sorts of ways that we were a couple.

One time at an event it came to be that I was to explain we were a couple to someone and I never forget the surprise in that person's face.

Another time I could see a bunch of 2-3 women or so close to my table (or was suppose to be our table, again, but he was gone, somewhere) say to themselves and to me too I guess, that they had seen this hot guy. Turns out that hot guy was my husband.

I knew they would not have said it that way if they had had any clue that this was my man they were referring too.

I did not tell him he's taken for, he's all mine (evil laugh followed). I pretended not to hear or take any much notice of it.

One time I asked my husband if he was as detached as he was from me because he was ashamed of me in public?

That maybe he had bought the image his narc parent had sold him that he was suppose to be superior to me in looks, achievement, what ever.

He just said no, of course not.

And every time, as soon as we got away from there (any social event) he would be his old self again and be showing physical tenderness in small and big ways.

He was too raised to not give compliments. So he would not say so much at all, at most I would hear when I wore a dress that I looked pretty in it but it could be months if not years between me hearing a compliment from him. I would however compliment him lots and lots of times.

Today he is complimenting and he is showing physical signs of tenderness out in any social gathering and he stay by my side. It is like a new him.

oh and one time, this is so funny actually: I was watching him in sport, and this GUY standing next to me began to point him out for me and tell me what a handsome devil that was and how much capacity he thought that guy had.

I just smiled and said yes I think so too. And we just stood there smiling, watching him in action. I thought should both of us do a little wave if he looks our way?

[Izz]

I think lots of his objections, hesitation came from him having been brought up in a narc household. They were suppose to be perfect, they were suppose to be superior. They were not suppose to have any problems. Even when the rest of the family would be sick and not the narc parent, they were not allowed to be sick, sort off. As if it was a sign of weakness. And now he was suppose to be dragged to counseling, when he had always been taught to say we don't have any problems. We're good.

Hello again asearcher

I can't comment on the autism part, as I think others are more well versed on it

But I maintain my observations and assessment before - I think he just had the "golden child" syndrome because of the upbringing and is given the chance to break the cycle with you. He is given the chance to break away from replicating certain dysfunctional parts. What he does with that chance - you have been observing him and it's good that he has been making much efforts and progress as you have told me

Thank you Izz :) Yes he has been just wonderful now, he has progressed.

He would also blame his bad temper on the fact that he found out what his narc parent had done behind his back - for years even - to me. I had not told him stuff as I did not want to burden him. I suppose a part of me had difficulty believing it myself. All the sick stuff.

Anyways. he has said that he thought too he had anger issues was because of the situation with his narc parent. That he now at least knows why I was withdrawing concerning that part.

Me withdrawing has apparently been one of his triggers (anger issue, frustration, fear).

I would for years try to solve what ever it now was that the narc parent had against me but it did not work. I would follow the useless advice that I should not get my husband involved (as impossible for him to chose side etc) or see his parent through my eyes.

He has said that he is angry at such so called advice from experts as that meant I withhold information from him that he thought he was entitled to know and to know the scale of it, and not something I should have just kept to myself.

That he think I should have just told him straight of the bat and then leave the rest up to him.

He's been really angry with his narc parent as well. Says he is by far more angry with that one than with me not telling him stuff. Says he has had nightmares even when he completely loses it with the narc parent, but in reality he knows narcissism is a personality disorder. He has by now tried all sorts of ways, tactics against the tactics that the narc parent has used, using. He has too in all honesty exploded at the narc-parent, when he before used to be able to keep his calm.

He would before say if he just got his wife back (me) than he would feel fine like he did before but that was not the entire truth, but I do understand he was under a great deal of strain for a long time too (and not just me). He has said he has never once thought about leaving me, and that no matter what his narc parent would have thought of me it would not have mattered. He says too why he has been indifferent before when the narc would say something etc was because he, as he said to me before, did not consider himself ever having been so close to the narc-parent in the first place, and too him always knowing the narc-parent was in need of narc-attention, narc-supply "out there" (similar to what I have experienced in a past relationship, with a psychopath, also great need of narc-supply "out there"). In a way it is as if he has considered his real family to be more so the others. That could be why the others including himself keep on trying to fix what ever the narc is destroying, as if they themselves are one little family without the narc.

he has this song that he before used to think about me on, it's called "I promise myself" by Nick Kamen. There are some words in it that goes "...my sister and brother knows I'm in love with you", when he would say those words (now years ago) I understood that was important to him. Too another "God I know what people say about her, no mistake, who can live without her?". I know ages ago when he would use those words, lyrics, to me it touched me to tears. He used the whole "I promise myself" more so than I promise you. He meant that it was more important he promised himself than promising me because he was the one who had to do right by him, somehow. I can't really remember, LOL. I guess I thought back on those words with brother and sister, as he did not chose words, lyric with parents in them, for a reason?

There has also been a bunch of other things my husband has opened up and told me about that I can't write about here but it gives me a deeper understanding of things, on the narc-part but also his own autism-part, signs from childhood, how he has coped with his autism (without even knowing he had it).

Just today something happened and I could feel my husband get irritated and about to get more so when I simply spoke up, not like before, and told him that I got stomach pain and felt like crying when he got like that. Before I would not say anything. I know by now I am overly sensitive to if, when he gets irritated about something but it is just because of how it has been in the past, but right away he took care of it and did not let it built up and did not go around with that feeling for hours, but managed to cope with it way, way, way better than he would in his past. I am only hoping my over sensitivity will wear off in time too.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by asearcher

I know by now I am overly sensitive to if, when he gets irritated about something but it is just because of how it has been in the past, but right away he took care of it and did not let it built up and did not go around with that feeling for hours, but managed to cope with it way, way, way better than he would in his past. I am only hoping my over sensitivity will wear off in time too.

I can't be around my husband when he's really stressed out or angry. I have to physically leave the room. I feel it in my gut too. I'm usually ok if I just leave the room while he's feeling like that.

Ah thanks Traveler then I am not alone although sorry that you too have it like that I must say.

Perhaps it is that you have such a close relationship and you feel each other's emotions and so when that start to happen you have no thick skin against it?

I feel relieved though that now all the different pieces of the puzzle has come together and he has the right tools now to handle himself.

I have never known anyone who can disconnect himself so from people like he can and when and if he has done it with me it is a terrible feeling especially when I have been used to then being connected to him.

He has affective empathy and so when he takes in my emotions too much so and his own I think it gets to be too much.

He has told me he hates it just as much as I do when we are disconnected, he feels it right away and he has felt me withdrawing and "revisiting" to only withdraw again for several years, but not understood why I withdrew.

He would say about me "She's my pill" as far as him thinking when I was doing fine, I excude some sort of harmony, pleasanty to me he says and so have other said, and he too used to say he used to feel "so safe" with me and that he could just be himself.

I know now about his perfectonism not being unusual for those who are on the autism spectrum, the OCD, the vulnerability to depression and anxiety, him coming off as if he is sort of disconnected to other people even if he has taught the skills to not come off that way too much.

One thing I remember when I fell in love with him that I really did appreciate with him was that he was not running around and putting other people before me, like my ex, a psychopath did (to get its dose of narc supply). He had his priorities straight. It was never anything I had to tell him, he just made his own priorities. That should have been in the back of my head when I saw him at work with his female collague and for me to not think the worst but then again I suppose I was tired and let down of him acting as if we were not a couple, in my book, around other people and it just got to be too much for me that one time.

Today it is as if he has truly trained himself, preparing for battle, LOL, so now around other people he is behaving natural, seemingly too relaxed, he is without a doubt seeing me, he stays connected with me. Just today in such a crowd he initiated even a kiss on the mouth and he looked serious, proud and then smiled at me, his eyes not letting mine go. Those things would never have happened in the past. I feel myself falling back in love with him again and it is wonderful in one way and a little scary in another.

I understand though that those who has autism on the spectrum can come off as if they are insensitive, at first glance he can look like that but then you realize he is full of emotions, sensitivity.

Perhaps I realize even more so than I am, this why too when we fought he was always more worked up, when we were sad he was more sad. He would say he was so sick of himself how he got with me, being "the drama queen", and he said he did not know what was happening to him, and that he had not been like that before. I think we both cared for each other deeply but it came off the wrong way.

I think in the past as I was the busy bee and having too a need for order and us not having that much on our plate that I did not understand he was the perfectionist that he truly was or having OCD. It was when it got to be too much that I could feel his irritation more and more. Now he can finally live with us without his irritation getting at most times the best of him.

If he does get like that I will do what you do, and just try to be in another room :)