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  #141  
Old 19-12-2020, 09:20 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Consciousness is just conscious of space and time, nothing more and nothing less. To say anything else is the imagination at work.

This is a definition of consciousness but there is also Consciousness beyond time and space.

It highlights the limitations of the English language in that we just have the one word consciousness to describe different states.

Sanskrit has the word cit or chit to describe transcendental Consciousness or pure Awareness. This Consciousness is not a product of the mind, far less the brain, and it is not related to time and space as found in the worlds of form.

Saying that "Consciousness is just conscious of space and time, nothing more and nothing less" is itself just the imagination at work.

Peace
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  #142  
Old 19-12-2020, 10:10 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
This is a definition of consciousness but there is also Consciousness beyond time and space.

It highlights the limitations of the English language in that we just have the one word consciousness to describe different states.

Sanskrit has the word cit or chit to describe transcendental Consciousness or pure Awareness. This Consciousness is not a product of the mind, far less the brain, and it is not related to time and space as found in the worlds of form.

Saying that "Consciousness is just conscious of space and time, nothing more and nothing less" is itself just the imagination at work.

Peace
What are you conscious of beyond space and time?
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  #143  
Old 20-12-2020, 01:12 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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The question is not what one is conscious of, but what is conscious of one.
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  #144  
Old 20-12-2020, 02:57 AM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
The question is not what one is conscious of, but what is conscious of one.
Well, that is one mighty fine convenient way to not answer the question, so you can continue to dismiss everyone else's individuality and mind/ego, except your own.

From who's point of view are you consciousness/conscious of one? Is it not your individual Atman?
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  #145  
Old 20-12-2020, 03:29 AM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyKeys
Ego requires active interpretation so it needs a source material to interpret.
While the Self is a state in which things arise from the internal into external expressions.
The reason I think some people, and I've fallen for this game too, talk about time/space and finitude and fixed locations as Identities is that theyre trying to describe happenings/events in the language of physics.. but funnily enough what transcend time and space is motion... That's Transcendent.. rather than thinking about others, which is the objective view and based on statistics, which sets up the framework of a universal field of probability we just look inwards from a self to self basis. Self to self is never subjective... the degree of shareable thoughts we all have within our basin of likeminded behaviors and language, thoughts, ideas, mediums of creativity, and job types.. it's actually very easy to relate to others. It's only in competition and conflict that people have negative views about the self, negative emotions.

Theres something about Motion and Emotion. And that would be Drive, Strife and Transcendence. To step out of an environment, or step out of the habitual nature of Self, it might be based on fear/shame of being stuck in the same loops or environment forever.
Yep, people are looking inwards on a self to self basis, while they claim to be looking on a Self to self basis.
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  #146  
Old 20-12-2020, 03:50 AM
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ego is the identity.

what one opens to is a deep silence and current that activates the nervous system as joy in the body and mind.

people refer to it as non dual because its causeless and endless.


whatever practice that opens one to it is good. for one its one thing. for another something else may work better. it takes time to open to it. takes more time to open to it to a point its causeless, endless, and does not become obstructed by the person in some way.
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  #147  
Old 20-12-2020, 09:20 AM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
ego is the identity.

what one opens to is a deep silence and current that activates the nervous system as joy in the body and mind.

people refer to it as non dual because its causeless and endless.


whatever practice that opens one to it is good. for one its one thing. for another something else may work better. it takes time to open to it. takes more time to open to it to a point its causeless, endless, and does not become obstructed by the person in some way.
The thing is, people do not seem to get that thier mind/ego that is preoccupied/filled up with false imaginary concepts/images about Self and consciouseness and dismissing/disassociating thier individual but not separate Self, is not being in a deep silence. It does not work, and for what, for a false imaginary sense of bliss, joy etc etc. Deep silence is having an empty mind.
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  #148  
Old 20-12-2020, 11:56 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Well, that is one mighty fine convenient way to not answer the question, so you can continue to dismiss everyone else's individuality and mind/ego, except your own.

From who's point of view are you consciousness/conscious of one? Is it not your individual Atman?

I approach my mind-body just like any other, a finite and temporary appearance of Maya. I don't dismiss any of it but just realize it for what it is, and it's not my true nature. That would be Atman. In other words this 180 lb animated lump of flesh and bone is the self, one among many, and all are but a mere reflection of Atman's existence, consciousness and bliss. It's not to be confused with Self and for me that's perfectly clear. That's the discernment I keep mentioning. The desuperimposition of the superimposition of the self and Self. Superimpositon is the trick, delusion or ignorance of Ahamkara (ego, I-maker, however one wishes to label it), confusing Self for the self and vice versa.

Individuality is of the self and not Self. Self is Atman, there's only one, it's Brahman and all the little selfs are, as is everything else in objective reality, appearances of Self as name, form and function and within Self. Self is both immanent as the self's "feeling" of existing, being conscious and subject to joy and sorrow, and transcendent as that deep inner silence of unchanging and unwavering Existence, Consciousness and Bliss (more appropriately deep serenity). The here and now is important to the self because it's a creature of and within time, space and matter whereas Self is not limited by any of it. It is beyond time, space and matter, unborn and undying.

As iamthat asked in the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
And are you speaking as someone resting in the Self/Atman who knows these things to be true, or are you speaking as someone still identified with the self who has a set of philosophical beliefs?

Untangling of the self and Self and with clarity and conviction is in fact Self-realization and yes, it's possible to rest in Self. Doing so 24x7 and irreversibly so is the challenge and as far as I can determine would be considered Enlightenment. Liberation and an end to all suffering. That's the goal of all the Eastern philosophies and their practices, whether dualist, qualified monoism or non-dualist, and that's detachment of identification with the self.
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  #149  
Old 20-12-2020, 05:19 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I approach my mind-body just like any other, a finite and temporary appearance of Maya. I don't dismiss any of it but just realize it for what it is, and it's not my true nature. That would be Atman. In other words this 180 lb animated lump of flesh and bone is the self, one among many, and all are but a mere reflection of Atman's existence, consciousness and bliss. It's not to be confused with Self and for me that's perfectly clear. That's the discernment I keep mentioning. The desuperimposition of the superimposition of the self and Self. Superimpositon is the trick, delusion or ignorance of Ahamkara (ego, I-maker, however one wishes to label it), confusing Self for the self and vice versa.

Individuality is of the self and not Self. Self is Atman, there's only one, it's Brahman and all the little selfs are, as is everything else in objective reality, appearances of Self as name, form and function and within Self. Self is both immanent as the self's "feeling" of existing, being conscious and subject to joy and sorrow, and transcendent as that deep inner silence of unchanging and unwavering Existence, Consciousness and Bliss (more appropriately deep serenity). The here and now is important to the self because it's a creature of and within time, space and matter whereas Self is not limited by any of it. It is beyond time, space and matter, unborn and undying.

As iamthat asked in the other thread:



Untangling of the self and Self and with clarity and conviction is in fact Self-realization and yes, it's possible to rest in Self. Doing so 24x7 and irreversibly so is the challenge and as far as I can determine would be considered Enlightenment. Liberation and an end to all suffering. That's the goal of all the Eastern philosophies and their practices, whether dualist, qualified monoism or non-dualist, and that's detachment of identification with the self.
Hmmm, mind, body and atman is a manisfestation or appearance of Brahman, not a manistfestation or appearance of maya/illusion. Maya/An illusion can't manisfest itself.

What do you think animates your180 lbs of animated lump of flesh and bones? Atman animates your 180 lbs animated lump of flesh and bone.

self is a made up concept/content of your mind so, your falsely conditioned mind, that contains conditioned false or misunderstood concepts about self-Self/Atman and consciousness (you are conscious though) is not your true nature. Your true nature is Atman...

Atman includes the individual mind, body and Atman is conscious thus Atman is consciousness.

Creating a false imaginary thing called self is separating and dividing Self/Atman thus is separating and dividing Brahman. This is what your and iamthat's foundation is based on and is the reason why you and iamthat divert from answering questions.

As I said before, Brahman is Atman in the flesh being conscious of itself and Atman is brahman in the flesh being conscious of itself. Atman is the individual but not separate (from Brahman) mind, body, self-Self, ego etc etc. The mind, body, self-Self, ego etc etc are all aspects, parts or extensions of Atman, thus are all aspects, parts or extensions of Brahman. All the individual but not separate aspects, parts or extensions of Atman/Brahman, makes Atman/Brahman one/whole.

What is beyond mind? Nothing is beyond mind, except death, when the individual mind ceases to be. How do you know consciousness is beyond mind/death, when you are not dead? You do not know and can't know because you are not dead/beyond death, claiming otherwise is a product of subjectivity and of your imagination. The self does not exist and is subjectivity and subjectivity and the imagination will never change the truth.

From who's or what's point of view are you consciousness/conscious and one? The individual Justasimpleguy is who! You viewing the one as consciousness is an imaginary function of your mind/ego. Saying you are conscious/consciousness of or as the one while you dismiss your individuality is a contradiction.
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  #150  
Old 20-12-2020, 07:17 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
What is beyond mind? Nothing is beyond mind, except death, when the individual mind ceases to be. How do you know consciousness is beyond mind/death, when you are not dead? You do not know and can't know because you are not dead/beyond death, claiming otherwise is a product of subjectivity and of your imagination. The self does not exist and is subjectivity and subjectivity and the imagination will never change the truth.

Herein lies your confusion. Beyond mind is pure Consciousness. If you claim that nothing is beyond mind then that is a product of your imagination.

If you have not experienced these states beyond the mind for yourself then it is just theory. For some, this is knowledge gained through direct experience.

You come across as having a lot of intellectual ideas but no actual experience of these things.

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