Saying "back, back, back"

[In Flux]

I'm not an advanced meditator by any stretch, but I found something that helps me to stay with the breath, and I wonder if other people have tried this. The idea is very simple: I repeat the word "back" in my mind, very rapidly (about 4 times a second). Actually, I only speak the word a few times, and then let it echo silently in my mind, so that it becomes a kind of unspoken pulse.

What's interesting (to me) is that this unspoken pulse continues on its own quite effortlessly (it's like it's programmed, and then just runs). And it makes it much easier to notice that my mind has wondered, I have the impression that it helps me to return to the breath within one or two seconds, instead of after several minutes. And since it's unspoken it also is not disturbing my sense of peace.

This kind of fits with an earlier observation that I had, which is that mind-wondering is often more like a slippery slope than a sudden distraction. Maybe mind-wondering starts with a small taste in my mouth, that vagelue reminds me of a certain smell in the garden (without this being a concrete thought about gardens), which then develops into an image of a garden, and only then do I start to really think about gardens. So it seems that the best way to catch mind wandering is to notice that you are paying attention to a taste in your mouth.

This is afaik also the reason why mental labelling is useful (you immediately notice when you stop paying attention to the breath), but it seems saying "back, back, back" works better for me to keep away from the slippery slope, mainly because at some point I easily forget that I was doing mental labelling (whereas back, back, back echoes in my mind quite effortlessly). Anyway, I just wanted to share, I will try it out some more.

[Gem]

I think what we usually discover when starting with meditation is we are nowhere near as focused as we think we are, that is, a lot more erratic and distracted than we supposed. This is followed by some disappointment and maybe a little bit of frustration because we tell the mind to do a simple thing, just watch breath, and it can't even do it. That's why we then think we should do something extra to make the mind stick better, like 'back back back'. That intentional thought activity is generated out of our reaction of disappointment along with the desire to that we want a more focused mind. Hence we have all the things like counting breath, 'breathing in, breathing out' and 'back back...' in your case.

It works. It makes the mind more focused, so I'm not knocking it to that end, but I don't think it is a good idea because the breath meditation is supposed to be 'just observe', which is to say, not generating thoughts intentionally.

At some stage you notice that the mind wandered off, so just resume meditation as you were. It's harder because you have no way of drowning out the unintended mental noise that keeps distracting you, but you also don't do anything to prevent yourself from noticing the amount of noise you randomly generate not only in meditation, but as a force of habit in day to day life. You get the insight 'so this is what I've been doing in my life'. That is different to noticing you make a lot of noise unintentionally and then drowning it out by intentionally making a louder sound.

I'm of the the 'just observe' persuasion, so of course I'll say 'stop imagining back back...' but the next spiritual genius will say the opposite. The cringy 'whatever works for you' is just about inevitable, and you can always use that to justify whatever, but I think if you at least sometimes try the 'just observe' approach, you'll be able to see that it is a bit harder, but much more revealing than adding intentionally generated imagination.

[Unseeking Seeker]

I’d say go with what resonates, free from doubt. When there’s no doubt, no hesitation, there’s no thought; we’re spontaneous, uninhibited, free flowing, unfettered by narrow identity.

There are so many mind games ~ observer observing observed, both us is a popular one. Subject becomes object but then another subject appears observing the object which was formerly the subject! How inventive we are! But it’s fun, all the same. To be honest, I use this too sometimes, as a mindfulness orientation.

What’s worked for me is a melding with, dissolving into the bliss current that renews within like soundless thunder. But then, to adopt this, we need to imbibe bliss in permanence first, which happens only by grace. Are we running around in circles here?

Breath will flow anyway, whether we watch it or not. Just as our heart beats, blood circulates, nerves tingle. But what is the source wherefrom these are impulsed? Not out there in the sky but within. We go there and be still. That’s all.

[sky]

Originally Posted by In Flux

I'm not an advanced meditator by any stretch, but I found something that helps me to stay with the breath, and I wonder if other people have tried this. The idea is very simple: I repeat the word "back" in my mind, very rapidly

If it works for you then I would suggest that you carry on, there will come a time when you don't need to say 'back' and the mind will naturally return to the breath....
Some will repeat the word 'back' other just think to go back, they are one and the same imo.....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

[color="Black"]I’d say go with what resonates, free from doubt. When there’s no doubt, no hesitation, there’s no thought; we’re spontaneous, uninhibited, free flowing, unfettered by narrow identity.

I agree

[In Flux]

Thanks for all the comments. I agree that it's better if you don't need any trick to stay with the breath, but as "training wheels" this seems to work well. I still have to notice that my mind wandered, and I still have to bring the attention back to the breath, it just becomes easier to catch the moments where I have to do this. And I noticed that overall my concentration is better now, and there is more bliss, so I think this could lead me down a good path. I will keep you posted :-).

ps I'm also using "drop, drop, drop" now. Sometimes the challenge is with observing that my mind has wandered, and then "back, back, back" works well. Other times the challenge is more with letting go of the distracting thought, and then "drop, drop, drop" seems to work better. Anyway, I'm excited :-).

[sky]

Originally Posted by In Flux

Thanks for all the comments. I agree that it's better if you don't need any trick to stay with the breath, but as "training wheels" this seems to work well.

Think of ' Tools' rather than tricks, when we fix something we sometimes use tools (most of the time) and discard them when the problem is solved.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by In Flux

Thanks for all the comments. I agree that it's better if you don't need any trick to stay with the breath, but as "training wheels" this seems to work well.

Yea I'm seemingly more hard core than most, but mainly this comes from noticing clear contradictions where we say mindfulness is 'just observe' but also say intentionally generate thought. It makes no sense. Other people beg to differ, but I can't be convinced because there is no way of reconciling that contradiction. The idea that it is necessary to intentionally generate thought and later it will not be necessary doesn't hold water either. It is a bit harder to 'just observe' to be sure, and often it's the opposite of bliss because the mind can be erratic, whereas intentional thought is mantra-like in effect as it kinda blots over unconscious unintended stuff, including the real reason we verbalise in the first place.

You notice the process is, you intend to feel your breathing, so thereto direct attention, but you don't intend to wander off or even notice yourself wandering away. After a while, completely out of the blue, it suddenly dawns on you that you lost track of breathing. At the same time you realise you were lost, the initial intention of breath awareness is remembered, and the attention goes back on breathing. There is only one intention in that process, and everything else, the thinking activity, distraction, realising you are gone and remembering breath again, is all unintended. Adding the intentional generation of thought, be it counting breath or back back or whatever is superflous because that can only happen after you have already noticed you drifted and remembered the breath.

Anyway. I feel like I'm getting a bit deep in the weeds, and even though what I say is observably true, saying back back is no biggie, but it tends to start intentionally and then becomes something you can't not do, so even though I'm not pandering and affirming and that doesn't seem encouraging, you will be able to see in your meditation that the process I'm describing is true.

I also want to be clear, I'm not telling anyone what to do or not to do, and I'm never going say the cliche, 'what works for you'. It's just a conversation about a meditation, and breath awareness is my favorite kind. I'm just thinking less is more is all.

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yea I'm seemingly more hard core than most, but mainly this comes from noticing clear contradictions where we say mindfulness is 'just observe' but also say intentionally generate thought.

The interesting thing is that "back, back, back" becomes an unspoken pulse. It doesn't directly interfere with thought. A thought can come up simultaneously with this pulse. Then two things can happen: either you catch mind wandering and let go of the thought, or the thought get stronger and you let go of the pulse. In that sense, this pulse is not an ordinary thought, because afaik you cannot have two thoughts at the same time, but this pulse and the thinking can actually exist at the same time.

Of course, I've just started trying this, and I'm just playing with it, as a beginner. So far I've noticed that it seems to make it easier to concentrate, but at some point - especially once my body becomes more relaxed - I do forget to maintain the pulse, and my mind starts wandering for long stretches of time again (but even then, it seems like I don't get lost in thought to the same extent, maybe because my concentration started out higher then it otherwise did, I don't know).

Another thing that interests me is how I do not just get lost in thought, but also how I get trapped in certain "mind-states". This is similar to how dreams have their own weird logic, but while you are in the dream, you accept this logic. To give an example, maybe I would start thinking about a facebook post (that's just an innocent little thought that I can let go of), but moreover, I may be caught in a mind-state in which I think of the whole world as one big news-feed (this is not something I intentionally do, it's just something that my mind might spontaneously do). Letting go of a thought is much easier than letting go of a mind-state, because for the latter, I have to drop my frame of reference, and stop seeing the world as a news-feed, but once you are caught in this weird "dream logic" it tends to become very sticky.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by In Flux

I do not just get lost in thought, but also how I get trapped in certain "mind-states".

I think the essence of breath awareness is you intend to pay attention to the reality of what breathing feels like. That goes without saying really.

However, what we intend and what happens are two different things, and we quickly forget what we are doing and unintentionally drift away with the thoughts. Naturally you know this already and I continue to state the obvious.

At first we can pay attention for some seconds up to a minute or so, and sometimes we might even drift off for 5 minutes or more before we remember we were supposed to be watching the breath. Over time we end up attending for longer and drifting off for shorter times, so it doesn't really matter, since that's beside the point - point being we simply keep resuming the meditation every time we realise we wandered off.

By what you are saying it seems to me that you have a high level of awareness about what's going on with yourself, and are conscious of the way the mind wanders, like being drawn into a facebook post and so on. Indeed social media has a way of making the mind 'continue talking' even when you aren't online, it's very distracting actually. However, once you notice you are off and away, there is only to resume the meditation.

The meditation on breath migfht only last 10 seconds or 20, and whoosh, you're away for 2 and 3 minutes on something sticky, but that OK because you never intended it. It just happened, and even if you drifted for 10 whole minutes there's nothing you could have done, but then, whenever it happens, you suddenly remember and are like, Oh yea, breath.

You get the insight, like, I see how my mind wanders like this and that, and by your description, it sounds like you are well aware of that.