My Own I Am.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

Terrible fear that I AM today. I pray that it will pass.

What you hold in mind comes to life irrespective of your preferences....

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Honza

I realise now - in my 50's - that the whole I Am thing is where my life went wrong. I chickened out of I Am and settled for 'we are' and 'God is'. This did not work. Everybody needs their own 'I Am' and now I need mine.

Originally Posted by Honza

Hi davidsun,

It is a form of existentialism. The 'unbearable lightness of being'.....

Existence is tough. It is scary. If I call myself God then will I make it worse?

Why would you call yourself God?
You can be your own I without your I being God...

[Honza]

Originally Posted by Altair

Why would you call yourself God?
You can be your own I without your I being God...

So if I am not God then who am I? Who is the deciding factor in my life? Complete autonomy implies that I am my own master including my own God.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Honza

So if I am not God then who am I? Who is the deciding factor in my life? Complete autonomy implies that I am my own master including my own God.

Same 'problem' as Adam and Eve had - hence their 'falling' for the distracting-from-getting-in-touch-with-and-then-cultivating-and-deploying-their-own-already-existing-Life-Force temptation to aspire to in-the-future-be "as gods" (Genesis 3:5)

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Honza

So if I am not God then who am I? Who is the deciding factor in my life? Complete autonomy implies that I am my own master including my own God.

If you are your own 'God' than what kind of 'God' would that be? A 'God' that does not have the answer to his own question?
If you are a 'God' with complete autonomy surely you must have omniscience as well...

Alternatively, instead of saying you are a 'God' you could say/accept you are a flawed human being.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Altair

Alternatively, instead of saying you are a 'God' you could say/accept you are a flawed human being.

Wherever you 'go', there you 'are'.

Instead of choosing to see oneself (or others) as 'flawed' one can choose to see oneself (and by extrapolation others) as being a, potentially at least, wisdom and life-adeptitude learning 'apprentice' (Life Itself being the 'teacher') - hence, potentially at least valuable to Life.

That some may not 'maximally' fulfill said potential doesn't make them 'flawed' - only part way, in terms of the 'journey' which is limitless and therefore has no 'end'.

You are presently living 'among' what you judge to be 'flawed' people 'in' what you project is a 'flawed' world, Altair.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by davidsun

You are presently living 'among' what you judge to be 'flawed' people 'in' what you project is a 'flawed' world, Altair.

All humans are flawed. You got issues with the word it seems. Would 'fallible' be more to your liking?
People are flawed, fallible, they make mistakes, they make false assumptions ((as you just did above))..

It's part of being human.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Altair

All humans are flawed. You got issues with the word it seems. Would 'fallible' be more to your liking?
People are flawed, fallible, they make mistakes, they make false assumptions ((as you just did above))..

It's part of being human.

You are the one making a 'mistake' here - by misconstruing 'fallible' to mean 'flawed' - in order to 'save' your 'ego' from experiencing its own 'fallibility' in this case, I would bet.

P.S. I did not make any false assumptions, In fact I did not make any assumptions at all. I merely re'framed' something you 'see' as being a 'negative' in a not being so light; that is all!

My logic should be apparent to and understandable by one of your intellectual capacities. There may in fact be other reasons, but methinks the only reason you wouldn't truly understand what I am unequivocally saying is to preserve your 'pride' in face of having me showing you your own 'negativity' in an 'unvarnished' light.

C'mon back at me if you'd like another round of truth-'box'ing in front of the audience here, Altair. I suggest you don't so, fhowever - for you own sake. I only do/say what I do/say as part of my 'duty' to uphold the truth - that is not pleasurable for me either.

[Altair]

What is interesting is that you over-analyse a word, and use it as an attack against me, yet I used it as an argument that we might not be 'God'.
I can only wonder what it exactly is in being flawed and fallible human beings that triggers you so much!

You talk about ego and pride. Well let me ask you this...

David, can you admit right here, right now, that you are a flawed and fallible human being?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Altair

What is interesting is that you over-analyse a word, and use it as an attack against me, yet I used it as an argument that we might not be 'God'.
I can only wonder what it exactly is in being flawed and fallible human beings that triggers you so much!

I think your inability (unwillgness?) to 'see' what I mean may be based on your idea that (a) 'God' implies 'infallibility' and corollarily that 'fallibility' implies 'flawed'ness.

The fact that a tiger is 'fallible' in that it more often than not 'fails' in its intent-based attempt to 'capture' its (hunt) 'target' does not mean that the 'tiger' is 'flawed'. Capiche what I mean here-now?

Originally Posted by Altair

You talk about ego and pride. Well let me ask you this...

David, can you admit right here, right now, that you are a flawed and fallible human being?

Duh! I admit that I am 'fallible'. That I am not always 'right' in your view, or for that matter mine, does not mean that I am 'flawed', however. I am an intelligent being who continues to learn to the best of my ability to become more discerning and adept by way of both 'succeeding' and 'failing', IOW by way of being both 'wright' and 'wrong'.

Q.E.D. Logic denying (IMO ) one!

From my book:

"Ultimately, no good comes from denying or distorting truth. Like it or not, each of us is a relatively minor aspect of Being. Yet every one of us is genuinely valid and vitally important, for we are essential features of Life's expression—both the flower and seed of ongoing Creativity [note: 'God' is Creativity, in my book].

Let us therefore recognize that, no matter how superior or inferior one may be relative to others in terms of specific traits and attributes, grandiosity and obsequiousness are really pretentious postures, equally unbecoming. Given his or her circumstance, the best anyone can do is choose, from available options, the ones that will be most fruitful. If and when we “judge” ourselves or others, it should be on this score. Besides the fact that [i]no more than this[/u] is possible, the quality of Life depends on the degree to which each of us manages or fails to do so."

Your 'argument' amounts to asserting that, in your eyes, Life (Itself!) is 'flawed'. I re-assert (logically, I think) that this is a 'negative' judgment on your part, which is fine with me if you want to 'shoot' yourself 'in the foot' that way, but there no way am I going to 'go along' with your 'fallible' = 'flawed' conflation (I don't think is this indicative of "the best of your ability"), dude?