Is time real?

[ayar415]

QUOTE 304 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Spirituality is about living in the spiritual, the physical universe, and everything in the physical universe.

I agree with this viewpoint also. Can you clarify this further? Would you say that the spiritual encompasses the physical just as the impersonal holds within it the personal. This does come across as paradoxical as Krishnamurti's experience of a silence in which there is sound.

There is no mystery about the nature of our existence. It's just that we don't give our heart to find out the truth.

[ayar415]

QUOTE 310 EXCERT:

Originally Posted by Molearner

I would define that differently. I understand ‘esoteric’ as something that is available(not hidden or occult) but whose deeper meaning is understood by only a few.

Why only by a few?

My objection is this cultivation of elitism that fosters the subjugation of the many by the few. This is the essence of egotism which is the root of human suffering.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by ayar415

QUOTE 304 EXCERPT: I agree with this viewpoint also. Can you clarify this further? Would you say that the spiritual encompasses the physical just as the impersonal holds within it the personal. This does come across as paradoxical as Krishnamurti's experience of a silence in which there is sound.

The physical and the spiritual are one. The physical is not separate from the spiritual.

This comes across as paradoxical because of the literal meaning people (want to) give to the word spiritual. Most people believe that the spiritual is purely non-physical or non-material, as in spirit, and that the non-physical or non-material is separate from the physical, there is a spiritual world, plane or reality, that is separate from physical reality. Examples of this are heaven aka the afterlife, and brahman aka ultimate or true reality. Heaven and brahman exists NOW as the physical, in the physical. People are not conscious/aware of this because they do not know this truth.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Ayar415,

I would define that differently. I understand ‘esoteric’ as something that is available(not hidden or occult) but whose deeper meaning is understood by only a few.

How and why is it only understood by a few? Is the how and why caused by people misconstruing, twisting and not fully and comepletly undertanding the descriptive words that form abstract concepts, metaphors, analogies, parables etc etc?

Originally Posted by MikeS80

How and why is it only understood by a few? Is the how and why caused by people misconstruing, twisting and not fully and comepletly undertanding the descriptive words that form abstract concepts, metaphors, analogies, parables etc etc?

MikeS80,

Poetry, art and music are subject to this same phenomena. Briefly stated….beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People sensitive to any of these can extract many and differing insights. It is always stepping beyond the literal. I

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Molearner

MikeS80,

Poetry, art and music are subject to this same phenomena. Briefly stated….beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People sensitive to any of these can extract many and differing insights. It is always stepping beyond the literal. I

Abstract poetry, art, which includes music are suppose to be wide open for people whom buys it with their money to explain it with their own personal meanings of them.

People either "buys" into spirituality for truth that is never not true, truth is synonymous with fact or reality or people "buys" into spirituality with misconstrued, twisted and misunderstood descriptive words that form abstract concepts, metaphors, analogies, parables etc etc to artificially feel good, comfort etc, which is not fact or reality, because they are misconstrued, twisted and misunderstood. People start out in spirituality for the truth. The way spirituality is these days, people pay with their minds.

Abstract poetry, art and spirituality are not the truth or reality.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Note: For a new person to all this: Above is just one person's opinion.

If what I say is just an opinion that is not true, then it is a lie. When something is not true, it is a lie.

A lie depends on more lies to exist/sustain itself as a lie.

The truth does not depend on anything to exist, the truth does not even depend on the truth to exist. The truth is just the truth.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by ayar415

QUOTE 294 EXCERPT: NOW is the consciousness, the impersonal state of awareness. Change does happens NOW, as you put it. NOW is the eternal (i.e. timeless) movement of life.

The reality is consciousness is the NOW, being conscious of itself in the NOW. In other words, the universe is conscious of itself. The non-physical/non-material has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness being conscious of itself as a physical thing.

In fact, The non-physical/non-material concept, distracts consciousness from being conscious of itself in the NOW.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Molearner

I would define that differently. I understand ‘esoteric’ as something that is available(not hidden or occult) but whose deeper meaning is understood by only a few. It invites personal understanding. I have encountered many esoteric passages and only discovering the deeper meaning much later in life. It is why we return to many things over and over.

Although this was not directed towards me, I had to comment since I agree with it completely.

This calls to mind a book, "The Message of Our Time" about the Sufi Mystic Hazrat Inayat Khan, which I had thought that I had thrown out many many years ago. In 1991, I discovered it again behind another book in my book shelf. Today, that book is one of my FAVORITES and I have highly recommended it ... to those who, unlike myself at one point ( ), would appreciate it. Upon re-reading it, I discovered that it was absolutely awesome. Obviously, the book didn't change ... but something else had changed ... me!

Even Jesus said, "Do not throw pearls before swine". There are certain things that the general public are not ready to hear and hence many masters do not openly share as it could be ridiculed by those who do not understand. That brings to mind my mysterious 9-year relationship with an extraordinary black "homeless" sage in NYC whom the masses ignored since they didn't realize what they were missing. It was only after two years of "by chance" meetings that he finally revealed himself as one who was clearly light years ahead of me spiritually despite my false high regard for my (LOL) "enlightened" ( ) state at that time. When he revealed himself to me and communicated life-transforming things about the nature of the Reality, I asked him why he had not spoken like that to me before. His response was appropriately humbling: "You were not even at a level where we could discuss basics". He explained in depth that certain things cannot be revealed for a variety of reasons when the person is not ready and certainly should not be communicated to the general public. That is one point of view and others here may understandably disagree.

Sometimes, however, I do misjudge and share things that are not appreciated for various reasons but that happens less and less and less nowadays. Fortunately, that has become very very very very rare. After all, I am not perfect ........... yet. LOL

[ayar415]

QUOTE 318 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by MikeS80

In other words, the universe is conscious of itself.

I agree. The universe (i.e. everything that exists) is formed by the consciousness. We need to clarify further how this takes place. Our approach to spirituality must be as rigorous as the scientific one: everything is explicable; otherwise, it must be rejected.

There is no esotericism in science. Knowledge is universally accessible and applied.