Why was John 3:4 altered so significantly?

[BigJohn]

So which translation is a better translation of the Koine Greek text?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Tedmil

KJV affirms that rebirth into mother is possible while in NIV affirms the same notion is absurd.

I don't see much difference personally, it's the Teaching that's important and exact words are not needed imo. If you look at the NIV it doesn't seem to follow the exact wording of the original Greek/Hebrew texts as close as James's does.

Originally Posted by sky

I don't see much difference personally, it's the Teaching that's important and exact words are not needed imo. If you look at the NIV it doesn't seem to follow the exact wording of the original Greek/Hebrew texts as close as James's does.

Again, KJV affirms while NIV mocks the same idea. That's not merely a change of words but a change in the entire context.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Tedmil

Again, KJV affirms while NIV mocks the same idea. That's not merely a change of words but a change in the entire context.

We all see things differently

[Molearner]

‘Surely’ in the NIV is taken as a rhetorical question by Jesus because the next sentence says Jesus answered’……that is what provides the context.

[Molearner]

Scripture must be read carefully. If one rightfully believes that context is important then for this particular account one should consider the significance of Nicodemus coming ‘by night’ or ‘at night’. The nature of this encounter can be understood as clandestine in nature….not for public consumption. The Pharisee made a remarkable concession(for a Pharisee of the ruling council) that Jesus ‘came from God’. To have said this publicly would have endangered the reputation of Nicodemus. Nicodemus also had to be aware that any response from Jesus might be brilliant and further enhance the reputation of Jesus. Some have even suggested that ‘by night’ could have meant by dream or meeting on a spiritual level……spirit to spirit. It then has relevance for us because we can visualize that we can also ask questions of Jesus.

[Molearner]

In other words the scripture invites us to personalize the verse to read: ‘I came to Jesus by night’. We can make the same concession as Nicodemus and learn that the foundation for miracles requires being born of the Spirit. Get out of the mindset of reading this as history and start understanding it as personally applicable to us instead.

[Maisy]

I think in the greek "born of" or "begotten of" means to be formed from, created or made by, so "born of spirit" means that is our base or foundation or source that creates us. What we are comes from that. Jesus says we are born of flesh like "created of ego" and that we need to be "born of spirit" to enter the kingdom of heaven. To me that means we change our core or center from ego to not ego. That's to be born again. First is the birth as an ego "flesh" then we are born again as what we are, spirit. Beyond the personality made by ego. I think it's just a matter of confusion as spirit is what we are. We just get so wrapped up in the ego we forget. We must be born again, discarding the false self we learned to believe was us. That's my take on it anyway.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

It then has relevance for us because we can visualize that we can also ask questions of Jesus.

Thankfully I personally don't need any Scripture to advise me, I know I can ask questions of Jesus, now whether He answers me or not is another story

[Maisy]

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus pretty much ignored Nicodemus's question I think. It's really a question about reincarnation. I think I read some people in those times believed in reincarnation. Some of the early christian sects did. They died out though or disappeared since the official church at some point put their foot down and said you can't believe in that.

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

I think Jesus was not talking about physical birth or our body. I think Jesus was talking about what makes us what we are. Jesus was not talking about wombs like Nicodemus was. Sure the womb makes the body. But not who (or what!) we are. I think Jesus was saying our foundation needs to be spirit and not ego.

I think Jesus was also making the point we are born as egos. That's the process we all go through. If somebody was aligned with spirit and not ego from birth they would not need to be born again.

Luke 5:32-39
King James Version
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The righteous have no need to be born again. They are already aligned with spirit.