Demonstration of existence after death:

While I think most people visiting this section of the forums believe that we endure after death, I've never come across a train of thought that demonstrates it. Faith, beliefs, and feelings in great numbers, yes, but not logic. The purpose of this post is to do just that. I apologize if the post is redundant or roundabout, I want to be exceptionally thorough, and this is a multi-step train of thought.

First of all, we all experience emotions, which are not physical. While there are chemicals in the brain that scientists can point to for various emotions, the experience of an emotion is not that of a chemical sloshing around in brain-goo. We feel sad, or happy, or afraid, so there must be more than just the physical going on here. And since we all have the capacity for emotions, it is both non-physical and universal. For the purposes of the demonstration, I'm going to term this non-physical, shared aspect of ourselves the spirit.

However, we are not carbon copies of one another. Our emotional experiences are unique. Emotions are both universal AND unique. Now, this is a contradiction, and the only way it's explainable is if there's another, distinct, non-physical aspect of ourselves that utilizes the capacities inherent in the spirit and allows us to experience our individual emotions. I'm going to call this the soul.

So, we have a shared non-physical aspect in the spirit, and our non-physical identity and uniqueness in the soul. The question then becomes whether the soul and spirit die along with the body. My answer is no on both counts. After someone dies, I continue to experience emotions, so the shared part of me that allows me to experience emotions, the spirit, does not suddenly cease to be on anyone's death, including my own.

That leaves the soul, our "I", which is the more challenging of the two to nail down and demonstrate that it endures beyond death because it's unique to each of us. However, it can be done by remembering that the root of the soul is in the spirit. The spirit-capacities allow the soul to flourish, completely independent of the body. The soul, or uniqueness, is in no way dependent on the body, shown in how if I get a heart transplant I suddenly don't wake up with emotions of the donor, for example. The body, a physical thing, does not posses the capacity to support the soul on its own. Instead, the soul is dependent on the spirit, and the spirit is eternal. Therefore, the soul must also endure beyond death.

In conclusion, both the soul, who we are, and the spirit, our universal capacities, continue to exist after death. So far, I've only used emotions as an example for consistency, but anything that we all posses the capacity for and is not physical can be attributed to the spirit, soul, or both, and thus we continue to exist as ourselves after we die.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Thrare

First of all, we all experience emotions, which are not physical. While there are chemicals in the brain that scientists can point to for various emotions, the experience of an emotion is not that of a chemical sloshing around in brain-goo. We feel sad, or happy, or afraid, so there must be more than just the physical going on here.

Your conclusion (underlined) doesn't follow from your premise. The rest of your argument hinges on your conclusion in this part being correct; however you are not using logic to deduce the conclusion.

I for one do not even know if it is logically possible to prove existence after death.

God bless.

[deztini3]

Even if this made any sense the logic would still not be valid since your conclusions come from nothing that involves empirical evidence..

We may never be able to prove if there is existance after death. I do know for a fact that there is an existance after death. I don't have anything anyone will be able to see nor touch, feel or smell but I have experience. I can hear, feel, communicate with those who have passed away. I cnt make them come to me they just show up so I dnt control where and when. Ima make the story short, one day I was transported spiritually to the enterance of the other side. I saw many people there. It seems like we don't lose any aspects of ourselves or we may just see what is familiar to us as we lived in our physical self. I know you may have heard it before but there was a big bright light and the enternal bliss felt was amazing. My friends grandfather told me I couldn't enter when I tried because it wasn't my time. I was then pushed into my body. I would say I was day dreaming. But my friend was there wit me when I just blanked out on her and when I came out she asked me where I went. She felt the sensations and she told me she felt me leave. Years later just a few weeks ago it happened again. I was pulled the same way. This time I didn't go because I was too afraid. But. Am upset cause I want the feeling back. All I know is that everything ever learned may not be completely correct. We know almost nothing. Its my opinion we grow those stanges reaching one level to another and once we figure it out it makes the transitions better and we advance. Those who don't may get stuck and that's how we get our hauntings. Those who move forward have the abilIity to move from one plane to another when they chose too. I believe the physical detaches from the soul and the soul continues on as our true self. They have transfered their emtions to me their thoughts like and dislikes. Someday I hope we get answers to answer all our questions. We all will disagree to agree but the only thing I learned that in order to find your way is to have an open mind to everything and not close door because that's how we will grow spiritually. Thanks. This just an opinion from my life experiences.

[GentleStrength]

One simple logic proof of existence after death is, "You exist, therefore you will ALWAYS exist".

Standard physics law of nothing being able to be created or destroyed, just transformed. Apparently the laws of physics mimic the laws of spirit!

Love and Light

"In conclusion, both the soul, who we are, and the spirit, our universal capacities, continue to exist after death. ......thus we continue to exist as ourselves after we die."

I didn't wade through your supporting argument but whether it was logical or not the above section of your conclusion is totally in accord with fundamental teachings of Modern Spiritualism.

Maybe right for the wrong reasons but no less right for all that.

I've been passing on a similar message for quite some time. Not quite 'as old as the hills' but certainly nothing new....

The most compelling evidence for me is rather simple.

As our body ages, our consciousness remains the same. Can anybody argue with that? Therefore, when consciousness is finished with this vehicle, that evidence leads me to believe that it will move on some where else. Personality and character will be lost, but consciousness will remain.

Originally Posted by freeflow

The most compelling evidence for me is rather simple.

As our body ages, our consciousness remains the same. Can anybody argue with that? Therefore, when consciousness is finished with this vehicle, that evidence leads me to believe that it will move on some where else. Personality and character will be lost, but consciousness will remain.

Gotta agree...

Originally Posted by GentleStrength

One simple logic proof of existence after death is, "You exist, therefore you will ALWAYS exist".

Standard physics law of nothing being able to be created or destroyed, just transformed. Apparently the laws of physics mimic the laws of spirit!

Love and Light

your body is transformed and broken down into basic elements to nurture a new generation of life.

I feel that every living being has a divine spark from the creator, humans simply call this our soul. This divine spark is what animates a body that is otherwise composed of basic elements. what makes you different from a rock, or an organically rich puddle of goo is this divine spark.

Atheists contend that life came out of the rich primordial soup of our early planet, perhaps by a lightning strike. However, the most brilliant scientists cannot "create life" out of basic elements, they can only manipulate the DNA and characteristics of organisms already given the divine spark. Furthermore, it is basically statistically impossible that a lightning strike or other fluke event would be able to arrange the delicate cell structures and internal organs of even the simplest bacteria. Furthermore, even if a single , most basic, bacteria could be created by a fluke event, that bacteria then would have to "learn" how to eat, digest, and secrete nutrition, then it would have to "learn" how to reproduce, in order to start a basic form of life that could then evolve, otherwise it would only create a single bacteria that would then simply die, and life could not gain a foothold. Taken as a whole it proves the existence of at least some sort of divine hand, and a spark of life that animates otherwise basic elements.

Now then, I believe that the soul lasts on after death, because the divine spark is essentially energy. According to the laws of physics, energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, it merely changes forms. What form we take after death is anyone's guess, because to quote Shakespeare, death is "that undiscovered country from whose borne no traveler returns".