The Mother or the Father? Laozi or Jesus?

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by django

For his part Jesus broke many cultural rules, and even created a word for 'God' that was unusual in Judaism, 'Abba', best translated as 'Papa'.

Actually you are incorrect.

Although Hebrew was still spoken by some at the time of Jesus, the main language spoken by the people was Aramaic. The Hebrew word for father is אב (Av). The Aramaic word for father is אבא (Abba). It is the only Aramaic word for father. It is not a term of special endearment like Dad, Daddy or Papa. It's simply father.

Only later would it be adopted into Hebrew as a term of endearment.

*** * * * * " I glory on the breast of my Mother." * * * * * ***

He compares himself to a little child, abandoned
and rejected by mankind, but dear to his mother-Nature. It
is a full indictment of the world, and loses nothing of its force
by reason of its simplicity; for how can we reject the child of
Nature without spurning Nature herself, on whose pure breast
he lies in his glory? All this worldly wisdom of ours, this
distinction of good and evil, this ambition, egoism, dogmatism,
this patriotism, this spacing out of our lives into codes of ethic
and polity, this ticketing and labelling of things and persons
which characterises the world to-day, all this is laughed at and
scorned by Laotze as something paltry, ridiculous, and unnatural.
Yet while rejecting Nature in the highest sense, we
swarm over her like parasites in all that appertains to the
merely earthly. We are for ever probing her for new and ever
new resourcesr prodding her for more and more sustenance,
nosing and pushing and squealing like a litter of young pigs,
and sucking at her like vampires. We know a great deal
about her operations and resources, all that concerns the mere
externals of her existence, but of Nature herself-her integrity,
her virtue, her unselfishness, her close union with God-we are
altogether ignorant, or what (but for our ignorance) would be
worse, indifferent.

Simply outstanding!!! Excellent !!!!

[django]

Originally Posted by RabbiO

Actually you are incorrect.

Although Hebrew was still spoken by some at the time of Jesus, the main language spoken by the people was Aramaic. The Hebrew word for father is אב (Av). The Aramaic word for father is אבא (Abba). It is the only Aramaic word for father. It is not a term of special endearment like Dad, Daddy or Papa. It's simply father.

Only later would it be adopted into Hebrew as a term of endearment.

Thankyou RabbiO, I appreciate your input.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

The Great Mystery neither Male nor Female.

....or both.

In Tantra, the "Father" and the "Mother" are inseparable, although one is reached and beseeched only through the other.

While it may sound confusing, consider this..

Jesus AS Jesus is not the "Father" even though he says: "I and the Father are one" but according to Christianity, the way TO the Father is through Jesus Christ, so Jesus also acts like the "middleman" between yourself and the Lord (Father).

Similarly, in Tantra, the way to Shiva is through Shakti and the way to Shakti is through Shiva.

This may also sound confusing, so let's break it down.

God or the Father is totally beyond His manifested energies yet is the creator OF them in the form of Prakriti or Shakti...the Goddess...so, by understanding God's manifested energies, God can thus be known through them and then by understanding God, His manifested energies can also be understood as being the cosmic dance between potent and intent.

It is like you have a problem, so you go ask your father and he says "ask your mother" so you go ask your mother and she says "ask your father" then you realise that what you are seeking is within yourself anyway...it is totally beyond the duality of "Divine Masculine" vs "Divine Feminine" because it is a combination of both, which leads to an either/neither or as an and/or scenario, which results in Samadhi... enlightenment.

The Tantric Hindus even have a Deity created for this very purpose when one cannot decide who to give their attention to...the Father or the Mother...it is called Ardharnarishvara or the "half and half God(dess)":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara

Meant for contemplating where one "ends" and the other "begins" until there is no "one" and no "other"... just both or neither.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

I’ve come to the conclusion that it is mother and father, without the ‘and’ even being there, so motherfather.

Which makes me a dualist

See my explanation above....We can move from Duality to Non Duality and back again as many times as we like with just a simple change in perception, only to realize that "Duality" vs "Non Duality" is also Duality.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Ok, don't laugh - Who is Laozi? Lao tzu?
Satanic Bible?

LOL..

I thought I would just add my bit as a Hindu, because we have a Rabbi, two Buddhists, a Christian, an OP who is trying to correlate Daoism with Christianity...just thought I would give a Hindu perspective..now all we need is a follower of the Islamic faith to come along and all bases will be covered before they all "are belong to us".

I don't know anything about the Satanic Bible or the Gospel of St. Thomas either, except for ONE thing..

"If you bring forth that which is within you, what is within you shall save you. If you do not bring forth that which is within you, what is within you shall destroy you".

I didn't need to read the Gospel of St. Thomas after that, because I got the main point of it without having the need to.

From a Daoist perspective (yeah, I can go there too), there has been talk of Yin and Yang in this thread...ever stop to wonder what that little dot of Yang is doing in the Yin and what that little dot of Yin is doing in the Yang? because I sure have.

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

LOL..

I thought I would just add my bit as a Hindu, because we have a Rabbi, two Buddhists, a Christian, an OP who is trying to correlate Daoism with Christianity...just thought I would give a Hindu perspective..now all we need is a follower of the Islamic faith to come along and all bases will be covered before they all "are belong to us".

I don't know anything about the Satanic Bible or the Gospel of St. Thomas either, except for ONE thing..

"If you bring forth that which is within you, what is within you shall save you. If you do not bring forth that which is within you, what is within you shall destroy you".

I didn't need to read the Gospel of St. Thomas after that, because I got the main point of it without having the need to.

From a Daoist perspective (yeah, I can go there too), there has been talk of Yin and Yang in this thread...ever stop to wonder what that little dot of Yang is doing in the Yin and what that little dot of Yin is doing in the Yang? because I sure have.

Maybe we can never get beyond duality, always yin and yang with a little bit of the other in it, even at the very subtle levels.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

Maybe we can never get beyond duality, always yin and yang with a little bit of the other in it, even at the very subtle levels.

Not with any intellectualizing or conscious thought patterns anyway, as they are part of the duality they are trying to escape from..until we become very skilled mental contortionists, getting nowhere..

This goes wholly into the realms of pure subjective experience of somewhere we don't need any concept of duality or non duality to even travel to..the Christian people call it a "leap of faith".

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

....or both.

In Tantra, the "Father" and the "Mother" are inseparable, although one is reached and beseeched only through the other.

While it may sound confusing, consider this..

Jesus AS Jesus is not the "Father" even though he says: "I and the Father are one" but according to Christianity, the way TO the Father is through Jesus Christ, so Jesus also acts like the "middleman" between yourself and the Lord (Father).

Similarly, in Tantra, the way to Shiva is through Shakti and the way to Shakti is through Shiva.

This may also sound confusing, so let's break it down.

God or the Father is totally beyond His manifested energies yet is the creator OF them in the form of Prakriti or Shakti...the Goddess...so, by understanding God's manifested energies, God can thus be known through them and then by understanding God, His manifested energies can also be understood as being the cosmic dance between potent and intent.

It is like you have a problem, so you go ask your father and he says "ask your mother" so you go ask your mother and she says "ask your father" then you realise that what you are seeking is within yourself anyway...it is totally beyond the duality of "Divine Masculine" vs "Divine Feminine" because it is a combination of both, which leads to an either/neither or as an and/or scenario, which results in Samadhi... enlightenment.

The Tantric Hindus even have a Deity created for this very purpose when one cannot decide who to give their attention to...the Father or the Mother...it is called Ardharnarishvara or the "half and half God(dess)":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara

Meant for contemplating where one "ends" and the other "begins" until there is no "one" and no "other"... just both or neither.

Very nice explanation.
A cosmic dance between potent and intent, as you have nicely put it.
We can see these dances play out in nature everywhere we look.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

....or both.

In Tantra, the "Father" and the "Mother" are inseparable, although one is reached and beseeched only through the other.

While it may sound confusing, consider this..

Jesus AS Jesus is not the "Father" even though he says: "I and the Father are one" but according to Christianity, the way TO the Father is through Jesus Christ, so Jesus also acts like the "middleman" between yourself and the Lord (Father).

Similarly, in Tantra, the way to Shiva is through Shakti and the way to Shakti is through Shiva.

This may also sound confusing, so let's break it down.

God or the Father is totally beyond His manifested energies yet is the creator OF them in the form of Prakriti or Shakti...the Goddess...so, by understanding God's manifested energies, God can thus be known through them and then by understanding God, His manifested energies can also be understood as being the cosmic dance between potent and intent.

It is like you have a problem, so you go ask your father and he says "ask your mother" so you go ask your mother and she says "ask your father" then you realise that what you are seeking is within yourself anyway...it is totally beyond the duality of "Divine Masculine" vs "Divine Feminine" because it is a combination of both, which leads to an either/neither or as an and/or scenario, which results in Samadhi... enlightenment.

The Tantric Hindus even have a Deity created for this very purpose when one cannot decide who to give their attention to...the Father or the Mother...it is called Ardharnarishvara or the "half and half God(dess)":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara

Meant for contemplating where one "ends" and the other "begins" until there is no "one" and no "other"... just both or neither.

From a Mystical Christianity point of view..

The Father is Emptiness the Tao.

The Father and Jesus being One is a perfect description of Non Duality, of realizing emptiness, of being a Realized Immortal.

Hinduism doesn't have the same concept of emptiness as Taoism or Buddhism or Mystical Christianity. There is Shiva and we are all within Shiva.