Sin and Sexual Orientation

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Thanks psychoslice! You're an inspiration to us all!

TeeHee,

No problem! I like you too! I can answer two questions that I forgot to:

Maybe you meant Dawkins? I was never into that. I don't really keep up with the popular speakers.

My religion was Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox as a child, then Roman Catholic, later Presbyterian, Methodist, and eventually Non-Denominational, which is funny because it seemed like a denomination to me.

Yes, I meant Dawkins, and have a wonderful day. Stand up for what convicts your conscience, it's a noble character trait.

I thought people are judged by the good (or bad) they do and not by what they do in bed.

Homosexuals have the same emotions and feelings as any other human being. When they bleed, their blood is red.

To deny homosexuals the rights and privileges of hetero people is to make of them second-rate citizens.

It does not take much to start a hate movement which might lead to what happened in nazi Germany with homosexuals among others and in, for example, the States with people who were considered mentally inferior:

A pink triangle, two-and-three-quarter inches high, worn on the left side of the jacket and on the right leg of the trousers, was the symbol which branded the homosexual inmates of the Nazi concentration camps. Most of them perished. In the words of a non-gay survivor: "I saw quite a number of pink triangles. I don't know how they were eventually killed. ... One day they were simply gone."

"The U.S. was never that extreme, but throughout much of the 1900s, the eugenics movement led to sterilization (castration) of those deemed mentally inferior."

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/bio301.../Gay/Text.html

I am not saying that such atrocities will happen in this day and age but there is still gay-bashing.

When I read threads like this, or when I read how people are considered sinners, I think of what Seth (Jane Roberts) said:

As long as you believe in the basic evil of man, then you must project upon yourself great punishment. You must see your world destroyed, and so will you have prophets to tell you so, and so they will speak the truth, for they will speak from your own beliefs in the idea of your own evil.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Bluegreen

I am not saying that such atrocities will happen in this day and age but there is still gay-bashing.

People are still beaten and sometimes killed here in the US. In other part of the world they still give the death penalty for being gay. We don't realize the consequences of when we teach that homosexuality is a sin. Even though we don't make it a practice of killing people here in the US, many are still committing suicide. We still have a long way to go.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

People are still beaten and sometimes killed here in the US. In other part of the world they still give the death penalty for being gay. We don't realize the consequences of when we teach that homosexuality is a sin. Even though we don't make it a practice of killing people here in the US, many are still committing suicide. We still have a long way to go.

Sad, isn't it?

I'm all for gay rights, but in the past there were realms where straight people were forced to be gay - let's remember this.

Originally Posted by Gr4ssh0pp3r

I'm all for gay rights, but in the past there were realms where straight people were forced to be gay - let's remember this.

Caligula anyone?

Namaste,

Bodhi

Originally Posted by Gr4ssh0pp3r

I'm all for gay rights, but in the past there were realms where straight people were forced to be gay - let's remember this.

May we have your source please?

Hi. Have you ever read a book, that you really liked, but you didn't necessarily agree with all the material you read in it? In reality, what is really "wrong"? A man who murders another man or a man who loves another man...sexually? Let's see, murder stops a person from experiencing the physical life and same sex relationships does what... Is GOD really frowning upon this issue or could it be that tricky mortal again? In my opinion, if any CREATOR creates you and tells you that you can't experience happiness that doesnt harm another, then why the hell were you given free-will? Sex is a joyous experience that just happens to produce more lives in the process. However, not everyone in the world wants kids...maybe it's that free-will thing again. Also, marriage is only sacred if all members in it believes it is. HAVE A GREAT DAY!

[Gem]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

These men, the Apostles provided reliable testimony. I can trust the apostles' testimony because eleven of those men died martyrs' deaths for standing solid. These men were tortured and flogged. Lets review briefly the process of a good ol flogging.

Alexander Mertherell explains:
The soldier would use a whip of braided leather thongs with metal balls woven into them. When the whip would strike the flesh, these balls would cause deep bruises or contusions, which would break open with futher blows. And the whip had pieces of sharp bone as well, which would cut the flesh severely. The back would be so shredded that part of the spine was sometimes exposed by the deep, deep cuts. The whipping would have gone all the way from the shoulders down to the back, the buttocks, and the back of the legs.

Many lack enough conviction in their lives even to walk across the street for what they believe, much less to die for it. So you may ask the question, just how much credibility do the disciples deserve for offering their lives as confirmation of their beliefs?

2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1 John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

John 19:35
And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

Acts 1:3
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 4:20
For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

To answer your question, no, I do not think man is saying it and pretending it's God's word. However, I sincerely doubt anything at this point will change your mind, objectively speaking of course.

I don't quite get the point you're trying to make. One must also understand that vile criminals were lashed too, however, no-one sang their praises.

I was saying that anyone can have views on sexuality, but they are personal views, not something deemed by God.

It's important you see. I have to be aware of what my personal values on sexuality are so as not to impose them on anyone else.

This is a tricky subject, and one that I'm not entirely vocal about. The fact is that Jesus did not teach ANYTHING about homosexuality. He taught that adultery is wrong, and that if you marry and divorce, then re-marriage is wrong. But it seems that He didn't think the issue of homosexuality was THAT big of a deal, otherwise I'm sure he would have said something. If I'm not mistaken, homosexuality was condemned in Jewish law, but we can't just take that law and say "it's all black and white, homosexuals need to be stoned to death".

I just look to what Jesus said about marriage in general, and that is that it is wise not to marry (if you can accept this teaching) for the benefit of the KOH. After all, there is no marriage in Heaven, so even the great experience of a sexual partner is short lived in the light of eternity. I know a guy who is a homosexual, and he decided to take this teaching seriously once he became a Christian. After being celibate for a few weeks he actually began to question whether or not he even WAS gay. I'm not trying to say that homosexuality is a mental disease, but this situation was quite interesting nonetheless.

I have to disagree with StelaVenus. God gave us free will so that we would not be unthinking robots who just love Him and do what He says. He wants us to choose to do the right thing. We can't dictate to Him what is right and wrong.