Sin and Sexual Orientation

[SeekerOfJustice]

What does the Bible teach about differing sexualities? I know that marriage is upheld as sacred because the bond between a married man and woman allow for the procreation of life and the experience of "bliss", or the "contact point" towards more fully experiencing God (or the closest reality to It -using sex).

Is it sinful to be LGBT within the Bible or according to Jesus, even if that particular person truly walks as Christ and devotes their life to bettering humanity (such as the Peace Corps or a "noble"/giving line of work)?

Furthermore, if it is sinful, what does this say about that person's nature? Are they naturally sinful in their sexuality (because of who they are/become) even if they try to change who they are attracted to?

Mike...

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by SeekerOfJustice

Is it sinful to be LGBT within the Bible or according to Jesus, even if that particular person truly walks as Christ and devotes their life to bettering humanity (such as the Peace Corps or a "noble"/giving line of work)?

There is a difference between being homosexual and practicing homosexuality. God created humans as male and female and his plan was that a man an woman enter into a permanent marriage relationship and this is the only form of sexual activity that is permitted. We were originally created so that each person would be sexually attracted only to members of the opposite sex.

Unfortunately the first humans sinned and their sin has had an adverse affect on the whole human race. It is because of sin that we suffer from physical and mental defects and all of us eventually die. In some people the normal instinct to be attracted to the opposite sex is defective and they find themselves sexually attracted to others of the same sex. Having this attraction isn't something they can help so of course it isn't a sin. But they have the power to choose whether to act on their desires or to obey God.

Perhaps the best way to understand this better would be to read Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill. Hill was born into a Christian family and learned from the Bible that all homosexual practice is a sin. But he discovered that he was attracted to men rather than to women. He concluded that the only way he could avoid sin was to live a life of celebacy and his book describes his experiences. You can read a more complete description of the book here.

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/washed-and-waiting/

Here is another good source of information on this subject.

http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/

This is an organization whose purpose is to help people with homosexual orientation who are aware of the fact that homosexual practice has been forbidden by God.

As a non denominational Christian I believe the Bible is true, and that it is God's Word, not man's. You can't read the Bible without seeing that a homosexual lifestyle is a sin. I may not like what the Bible says, or I may not understand it, but I am not free to change it, disregard it, or ignore it.

However, Homosexual sin is not the only sexual sin in the Bible. I must not fall into the temptation of believing that the sin of others is greater than mine. Sin is sin. We have all sinned and Christ died on the Cross to save us all, because we all need it. Also, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality---not one--even though He knew what the Bible said, and He believed and endorsed every word of it. I surmise, therefore, that homosexual sin is not on Jesus' list of top ten sins--if there even is such a list.

Jesus did vigorously denounce self-righteous people. It was those kinds of people and the religious establishments that joined together to nail Him to a Cross. Therefore, I just can't join in with those who denounce the homosexual sin with such a mean and vitriolic spirit.

theophilus, it does get a little confusing. Are you saying that the only purpose of sex is procreation and that is the only time where it is not a sin?

[Gem]

Don't you think man is saying it and then pretending it's 'God's word?'.

Look at it objectively. A man makes the claim that God said this and that, the other men believe what the first guy says, and this rumour goes around, but be honest,did anyone actually hear God say this stuff, or did some guy tell you He did.

[SeekerOfJustice]

This stuff all seemed to make sense at first and then none of it does... Oh well. The input was invaluable nonetheless! Thanks!

Mike

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Rin

theophilus, it does get a little confusing. Are you saying that the only purpose of sex is procreation and that is the only time where it is not a sin?

Procreation is one reason for sex but it is not the only one. In fact the account of how sex came into existence seems to indicate that it isn't even primary reason.

Then the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”
(Genesis 2:18 ESV)

God created Eve because it wasn't good for Adam to be alone, not because he couldn't produce offspring by himself.

He intended for a man and a woman to join together in a special relationship so close that the two of them would be considered one flesh.

Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
(Genesis 2:23-24 ESV)

First Corinthians 6:16 shows that it is the sexual act which brings about the union of the two in one flesh.

Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”

This means that only permissible sex it that between a man and a woman who are married to each other. Children are a desirable result from such a union but aren't essential to it.

Originally Posted by Gem

Don't you think man is saying it and then pretending it's 'God's word?'.

Look at it objectively. A man makes the claim that God said this and that, the other men believe what the first guy says, and this rumour goes around, but be honest,did anyone actually hear God say this stuff, or did some guy tell you He did.

These men, the Apostles provided reliable testimony. I can trust the apostles' testimony because eleven of those men died martyrs' deaths for standing solid. These men were tortured and flogged. Lets review briefly the process of a good ol flogging.

Alexander Mertherell explains:
The soldier would use a whip of braided leather thongs with metal balls woven into them. When the whip would strike the flesh, these balls would cause deep bruises or contusions, which would break open with futher blows. And the whip had pieces of sharp bone as well, which would cut the flesh severely. The back would be so shredded that part of the spine was sometimes exposed by the deep, deep cuts. The whipping would have gone all the way from the shoulders down to the back, the buttocks, and the back of the legs.

Many lack enough conviction in their lives even to walk across the street for what they believe, much less to die for it. So you may ask the question, just how much credibility do the disciples deserve for offering their lives as confirmation of their beliefs?

2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1 John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

John 19:35
And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

Acts 1:3
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 4:20
For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

To answer your question, no, I do not think man is saying it and pretending it's God's word. However, I sincerely doubt anything at this point will change your mind, objectively speaking of course.

Nothing you do can ever be a sin unless you believe it to be. You are the ruler of your own life, that is the gift you have been given by the cosmos itself called free will.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by SeekerOfJustice

Is it sinful to be LGBT within the Bible or according to Jesus, even if that particular person truly walks as Christ and devotes their life to bettering humanity (such as the Peace Corps or a "noble"/giving line of work)?

Look at primitive cultures and you see the same prejudice against LGBT. People had to have children so they wouldn't die. Today it's much different, if you don't have children you'll still survive. Yet the prejudice still lingers, and we suffer immensely because of it.