The Problem of Human Suffering.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by northstar

i am assuming that you are not talking about personal suffering, which of course is relative to the individual... but to world suffering... mans inhumanity to man...

The suffering is endured by the individual... and is also a general humanity problem.

In a war the average Joe is just a bloke with a machine gun, he has never met the feller he shoots, kills or maims... it's just that the nature of it entails a bunch of strangers in a volatile situation...

its about what we think is important... and until cokacola (example) thinks its more important not to poison the farm fields in india than make a profit... i'm afraid mans inhumanity to man will continue... its all about our priorities...

i'm not holding my breath...

It isn't coca cola really, thats just a drink, but a company is an identity which has an image but fundamentally it consists of people who compete within the structure, like a person has an image which consists of internally competing thoughts.

To create an image of 'the enemy' is to falsify individuals into a singular persona, for example a Nazi may well be a wonderfully loving man, but the mind is fixated on demonic murderous imagery... and no one likes Nazis as a result, but that hatred is already ingrained within the hater and projected or aroused into or by propaganda imagery, which has no inkling of any particular Nazis love for his family, kindness in society or any finer human quality.

yes... and thats just it isnt it... the individual is always the individual until they join the group... and even though the individual still remains the individual, s/he is now identified by the group... i.e. christian, muslim, atheist, corporation, high school, etc... and the group now defines the individuals actions... 'or else'...

i have walked many groups, yet i have never joined groups... i suppose if we could expand the group for me to 'the human race'... perhaps we could define our actions as the recognition of 'basic human rights'... i would be good with that... then there could still be smaller groups within groups, but the over-riding factor would simply be basic human rights...

if this makes no sense it be-cause i just woke up... (smile)

[Gem]

Originally Posted by northstar

yes... and thats just it isnt it... the individual is always the individual until they join the group... and even though the individual still remains the individual, s/he is now identified by the group... i.e. christian, muslim, atheist, corporation, high school, etc... and the group now defines the individuals actions... 'or else'...

i have walked many groups, yet i have never joined groups... i suppose if we could expand the group for me to 'the human race'... perhaps we could define our actions as the recognition of 'basic human rights'... i would be good with that... then there could still be smaller groups within groups, but the over-riding factor would simply be basic human rights...

if this makes no sense it be-cause i just woke up... (smile)

I think we have to accept that alot of this spiritual stuff is idealistic twaddle and mans nature is just as we see it, and I think if we exersize real integrity we can see that each one brings darkness and light with him... I know of 'both' my potentials in negative and positive and in kindness and cruelty... so the key issue is not the pretence that mankind is infused with God and by such a thing suffering comes to cease, on the contrary, attempts at perpetuating this notion have cause great calamity and destruction... and I don't even have a solution to this suffering problem, because it is the person that suffers, and as long as the person is, so too will there be suffering.

yes... that is true... its quite the tightrope, free-will or 'telling' everyone how to play nice (i think we tried that one)... i guess... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad_5G7kbbqw&NR=1 ...

so it can only come through the individual... just do the best we can... and make our own choices as to our actions... i'll be my part as best i can... its the responsibility of free-will i suppose...

Gem- it is the person that suffers, and as long as the person is, so too will there be suffering.

That says it all!

i 'refuse' to accept that lisa... but... i know i'm outnumbered (smile)... i'll 'never' give up trying to make our poor little battered wobbly planet in cold deep space a better place to live... but then you get down to 'whos opinion of better'... and the whole thing starts over again... yes... i know my species... but...

Originally Posted by northstar

i 'refuse' to accept that lisa...

Ok. But I'm sure you don't know what you are refusing to accept- I am looking at the quote not just in one way.

but... i know i'm outnumbered (smile)... i'll 'never' give up trying to make our poor little battered wobbly planet in cold deep space a better place to live...

Ok. I love this planet, but I am more taken by the deep space.

but then you get down to 'whos opinion of better'... and the whole thing starts over again... yes... i know my species... but...

Opinions are of equal value.
But what comes closet to truth is valued by me the most.

agreed... my neuron pathways are a bit slow this morn... (shrug)... no harm no foul... i was mostly talking about 'world' suffering in my response, not individual suffering, which i see as relative to the individual...

Originally Posted by northstar

agreed... my neuron pathways are a bit slow this morn... (shrug)... no harm no foul...

naw, you're fine. i am seeing it in a very spacious way.

i was mostly talking about 'world' suffering in my response, not individual suffering, which i see as relative to the individual...

I agree. But the individual suffering is where it starts. A bunch of individuals together are world suffering.

i see individual suffering a bit dif... take, um, doris duke? i think her name is... she has everything, yet she lives in her world of personal suffering... it doesnt add to world suffering as i see it... its personal... relative...