The Problem of Human Suffering.

[sound]

After re-reading my previous post i hope it didn't come across as rude ... apologies if that is the case NS

In addition to my comments in that post ... I truly feel that while ever I believe that I need to suffer to experience that which I deem as not suffering, then I will be faithful to those beliefs ...

Edited to make applicable to self lol ...

[BlueSky]

One thing I notice about suffering is that if it is happening TO ME, then I find it is manageable and that it will pass and possibly even teach me something..............but if I notice it happening TO SOMEONE ELSE, I have a much harder time dealing with it..........James

[Gem]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

One thing I notice about suffering is that if it is happening TO ME, then I find it is manageable and that it will pass and possibly even teach me something..............but if I notice it happening TO SOMEONE ELSE, I have a much harder time dealing with it..........James

It's a hard world... and I don't mean that to imply my own particular phsyche reflection or such a thing as that... but it is only to see what happens to be... and I always wondered why when in dreams I relive some violent episode it contains something even more revolting that what really did transpire, and there have been occasions where I was invited to describe the things that plague me but I really had to decline for I don't wish to infect the dreams of others, so I wrote these verses as an expression which I can expell in song, which everyone understands in their own terms. or not.

If I could go back there’s things I’d change
The past has gone my memories remain
Wise sages couldn’t tell us
Only questions plague their minds
Like blissful fools in darkness
It’s so easy to be blind

There’s things that I regret but can’t take back
There’s things I’d rather forget that stay in tact
My crimes were not revealed
Only secrets plague our time
And all the things concealed
Are so clear in my mind.

Originally Posted by Gem

Discussion:

What causes suffering?

Can we fix it?

How?

On that scale I think the individual creates the suffering. Putting more of that into Collective Consciousness. I do not know about how or if Collective conscious effects us on an individual level to. Because we all have the power of choice. I think perception is key. It is how the individual proceives it. I think if you don't label negative as negative. I think to love all emotions is key. For that the negative emotion turns into a positive emotion. That is my opinion.

[BlueSky]

It is a hard world Gem.........and I have done my share of montrous things in my life that I can say that think I understand the words of your song.
Blessings, James

[Xan]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

One thing I notice about suffering is that if it is happening TO ME, then I find it is manageable and that it will pass and possibly even teach me something..............but if I notice it happening TO SOMEONE ELSE, I have a much harder time dealing with it..........James

Yes... There's often a feeling of helpless about the suffering of others because it seems we can only take care of our own life and consciousness.

Yet... as for the OP question, 'How can we fix suffering?' ... It might seem too simplistic but there really is power in choosing love... to heal and uplift ourselves and each other. It can work on the collective as well as personal.

Here's a way: Your Transforming Heart - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3684


Xan

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by sound

Hi NS
Yeah i knew what you meant ... we do have different viewpoints ... I am wondering, if we go with your model, does that mean that we can kick start the measuring process with either suffering or non suffering, or must it always start with the former?

That's thought-provoking sound. To figure it out, I had to think as a child would, because they have nowhere to start except the act of doing. Bear with me while I mull it over here lol...

Unless one can remember each day of their childhood, then its difficult to pin-point. Children learn emotions along the way, and as babies, are very in-tune with their mothers emotions. Although a baby cannot analyse what they are feeling, they cry when hungry or uncomfortable....smile spontaneously....squeal in pain. As the brain matures and a child grows they learn to discern and name emotional responses.

To answer your question, I'd have to say "neither/or"....suffering and non suffering go hand-in-hand from the moment we are born. The biggest thought behind this for me is..."What if we only knew non suffering?" Can that be? I'm talking about here...on earth. How could we establish emotional charges without experiencing them all? If we know we are suffering , then we can work towards eliminating it or returning to a state of peace.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by NightSpirit

I really don't get this back-n-forward chatter about suffering. It's here! It's part of this world! Without it, we have no new goal to strive towards, to change it. We need goals. If we are to experience happiness, then we must also be prepared to experience suffering. Two sides of a coin...they must be!

It's true. Here it is. Can it be considered a problem? Perhaps. No-one enjoys it, and although almost everyone has some notions of solutions people are rather reluctant to go straight to the cause, because that is rather an ugly thing, and when things like beliefs ie 'personal truth' is involved... it's like a operation.

[Xan]

NightSpirit: The biggest thought behind this for me is..."What if we only knew non suffering?" Can that be? I'm talking about here...on earth. How could we establish emotional charges without experiencing them all? If we know we are suffering , then we can work towards eliminating it or returning to a state of peace.

Yes... I have remembered preparing for this lifetime and choosing a particular type of suffering to dive into. Not only to experience it, but to be a team member with those above who are developing a technology of healing and transformation to end suffering in the return to awareness in our true nature. I know others who have done the same.

Suffering is so widespread in our world that we may take it to be "the way life is". But suffering, which is caused by the forgetting of who we really are, is not the way Life Itself is. This is what we gradually come into remembering... knowing... being.


Xan

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's true. Here it is. Can it be considered a problem? Perhaps. No-one enjoys it, and although almost everyone has some notions of solutions people are rather reluctant to go straight to the cause, because that is rather an ugly thing, and when things like beliefs ie 'personal truth' is involved... it's like a operation.

Yes, that happens a great deal more then it needs to Gem. It could be several reasons....because the person cannot find another way, or fears the 'what ifs' and think "better the devil they know then something they don't". etc.