Starman's words on conditioning

Originally Posted by Starman

You might want to try a different approach. Don’t put any mental labels on your own being; if you do then you are searching with your mind, looking for concepts of your being that are in your mind. Relax into your self and trust your own being. There are many levels of reality.

Come, whole hearted into serenity and be simplistic, as we truly are at our core, as you are. Don’t freak out over what you “think” you have lost. You have to approach your self without a mask. A mask-less face of love and humility. Where there is fear there is no love.

The deeper you go inside the more vulnerable you will be, the more vulnerable you become, the more you must trust. Let go of the fear, be still in inner silence, and clarity will come to you. You come to your deeper self naked, exactly as you truly are. Without any labels placed on this or that. It is all you.

The experience is not about the words we use in this physical world, or what we think, or how we see ourselves. We need to ask ourselves, can we live in this world without our conditioning? Most people don’t know how to be here without their conditioning. There is no "good" and "bad," there is only what we think is good and bad.

And all those things you thought you were, all the things you thought you did, who and what you thought you were; that’s your conditioning. We amuse ourselves with dreams and imaginings, things to accumulate, companions and lovers to get involved with, enemies and friends, children to care for, and obstacles to overcome, that involve us deeper in the dream.

We are conditioned by this physical existence and when we go beyond this physical existence we often bring that conditioning with us. Humility and spiritual surrender is very important when we begin exploring our deeper being. It is not what we think it is, it is what it is. Let go, have courage, quiet your mind, and trust the process of your own being.

Peace and Good Journey

Starman:

You say that most people can't exist without their conditioning.

Without conditioning, how do you choose anew?

Thanks

JL

[Starman]

The debate is between free-will and predetermination, or destiny. Some decisions we make we were destined to make and others seem to be of our own accord, but even those of our own accord may lead to a predestined outcome. We can be the actor or we can observe from the audience.

One involves a drama and the other involves a flow. We are all conditioned from childhood on, and what I have found is that my spiritual path is all about undoing my conditioning. That is done in quiet meditation, and remaining quiet inside, most of the day, and at night while my body is sleeping.

Change is the only constant in this physical existence, and change involves beginnings and endings. New things are happening to us all the time but we may not notice it unless it makes a noticeable impact on us. Our conditioning is mostly in our mind, mental patterns, etc., that influence us emotionally, and gives us certain outward behavior patterns.

Most of our conditioning comes from our culture, society, and the way we were raised. We can change one pattern for another pattern, or we can truly leave our past behind and “be in this world but not of this world.” It may be difficult to do if we have to deal with this world on a regular basis. For me, it is all about freeing myself.

[Unseeking Seeker]

The challenge right here & now as I see it is that having experienced and so recognised that we are not the limited mind body, yet since our attention is held in quanta or packets of time, each pulse of rise & fall being a hypnotic trance for the continuum we are engaged therein, unless our core reflex fulcrum is not purified in as aligned with love in fullness, the conditioning of our past overpowers our stillness.

I am always reminded about the story of how the nymph Maneka seduced the said-to-be enlightened sage Vishwakarma, signalling that we should be wary of an imagined elevated or free state of being, for the assessment as such is also egoic.

The manifestation of thought as energy being the ‘reality’ of this or any other realm, possibly what is relevant is our response to the impulses received and in correspondence, the slow shift of our consciousness fulcrum.

Our imagined tranquil calm is easily jarred by an unexpected event. Then the lower aspect we have nurtured for long takes over. Maybe rage or lust or greed or whatever.

As long as we are resident in this mind body interface, there is work to be done in recalibrating our core.

Free will vs destiny is of course a debatable matter. My own views on it are as follows:

Free will whose
An egoic ruse
Please excuse
Offered clues

The mind body enigma
An outer form we call jiva
Inner layer soul or Atma
All within God or Paramatma

This preamble in place
The line of inquiry we face
From our core at an easy pace
Truth recognised solely by His grace

We the jiva with senses external
Having narrow agendas ephemeral
In joy & sorrow rotation cyclical
Live out a life tragicomical

Our the thus delusion
In myriad of maya borne illusion
Egoic thought fuelling confusion
Mires us in stupor of stagnation

Freedom instant by thought cessation
Resting fear & desire agitation
In restful prayerful meditation
Igniting within divine love bliss elation

However being bound by our own hand
Matrix of life yet we are yet to understand
We ask about free will before we can stand
The light within veiled by mundanity bland

So do we have free will ...
We indeed do if we are still
When divine love in our heart we instil
As the elixir of bliss within overspills

As for destiny
Of mind body entity
There is a blueprint but with no finality
Free will determining turbidity or serenity

When will we be free we hear ourself ask
In effortless stillness getting to the task
Is-ness of presence in joy does bask
Having discarded the ego mask

One day
Any day
Today
Hip hip hooray!

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

The challenge right here & now as I see it is that having experienced and so recognised that we are not the limited mind body, yet since our attention is held in quanta or packets of time, each pulse of rise & fall being a hypnotic trance for the continuum we are engaged therein, unless our core reflex fulcrum is not purified in as aligned with love in fullness, the conditioning of our past overpowers our stillness.

I am always reminded about the story of how the nymph Maneka seduced the said-to-be enlightened sage Vishwakarma, signalling that we should be wary of an imagined elevated or free state of being, for the assessment as such is also egoic.

The manifestation of thought as energy being the ‘reality’ of this or any other realm, possibly what is relevant is our response to the impulses received and in correspondence, the slow shift of our consciousness fulcrum.

Our imagined tranquil calm is easily jarred by an unexpected event. Then the lower aspect we have nurtured for long takes over. Maybe rage or lust or greed or whatever.

As long as we are resident in this mind body interface, there is work to be done in recalibrating our core.

Free will vs destiny is of course a debatable matter. My own views on it are as follows:

Free will whose
An egoic ruse
Please excuse
Offered clues

The mind body enigma
An outer form we call jiva
Inner layer soul or Atma
All within God or Paramatma

This preamble in place
The line of inquiry we face
From our core at an easy pace
Truth recognised solely by His grace

We the jiva with senses external
Having narrow agendas ephemeral
In joy & sorrow rotation cyclical
Live out a life tragicomical

Our the thus delusion
In myriad of maya borne illusion
Egoic thought fuelling confusion
Mires us in stupor of stagnation

Freedom instant by thought cessation
Resting fear & desire agitation
In restful prayerful meditation
Igniting within divine love bliss elation

However being bound by our own hand
Matrix of life yet we are yet to understand
We ask about free will before we can stand
The light within veiled by mundanity bland

So do we have free will ...
We indeed do if we are still
When divine love in our heart we instil
As the elixir of bliss within overspills

As for destiny
Of mind body entity
There is a blueprint but with no finality
Free will determining turbidity or serenity

When will we be free we hear ourself ask
In effortless stillness getting to the task
Is-ness of presence in joy does bask
Having discarded the ego mask

One day
Any day
Today
Hip hip hooray!

This..
‘The core reflex purified’

I agree it’s either unshakable or in its continuum of old resurfacing meets ground of being as stillness/non reaction.

I see myself in loose threads in my core..

Nothing major, awareness of what arises as a shift coming through, more stillness than reactiveness. Fast turnaround..

Back to clarity, joyful heart..

[Starman]

Unseeking Seeker, your name says it all. Thank you for that very insightful, and poetic, post. I think that most people are incredibly attached to their own conditioning, yes it is similar to a person being attached to their own egoist type behavior.

We identify ourselves according to nationalistic cultural and ethnic conditions, and some people may think that is a part of themselves. I think we should celebrate our differences, because all of us have a very unique, and innate, gift to offer. But still as human beings we have more in common than we do that is different. It is not so much what life does to us as it is how we react to what life does to us.

Thanks, all.

Originally Posted by Starman

The debate is between free-will and predetermination, or destiny. Some decisions we make we were destined to make and others seem to be of our own accord, but even those of our own accord may lead to a predestined outcome. We can be the actor or we can observe from the audience.

One involves a drama and the other involves a flow. We are all conditioned from childhood on, and what I have found is that my spiritual path is all about undoing my conditioning. That is done in quiet meditation, and remaining quiet inside, most of the day, and at night while my body is sleeping.

Change is the only constant in this physical existence, and change involves beginnings and endings. New things are happening to us all the time but we may not notice it unless it makes a noticeable impact on us. Our conditioning is mostly in our mind, mental patterns, etc., that influence us emotionally, and gives us certain outward behavior patterns.

Most of our conditioning comes from our culture, society, and the way we were raised. We can change one pattern for another pattern, or we can truly leave our past behind and “be in this world but not of this world.” It may be difficult to do if we have to deal with this world on a regular basis. For me, it is all about freeing myself.

Were your decisions in life any different, Starman?

Originally Posted by Starman

The debate is between free-will and predetermination, or destiny. Some decisions we make we were destined to make and others seem to be of our own accord, but even those of our own accord may lead to a predestined outcome. We can be the actor or we can observe from the audience.

One involves a drama and the other involves a flow. We are all conditioned from childhood on, and what I have found is that my spiritual path is all about undoing my conditioning. That is done in quiet meditation, and remaining quiet inside, most of the day, and at night while my body is sleeping.

Change is the only constant in this physical existence, and change involves beginnings and endings. New things are happening to us all the time but we may not notice it unless it makes a noticeable impact on us. Our conditioning is mostly in our mind, mental patterns, etc., that influence us emotionally, and gives us certain outward behavior patterns.

Most of our conditioning comes from our culture, society, and the way we were raised. We can change one pattern for another pattern, or we can truly leave our past behind and “be in this world but not of this world.” It may be difficult to do if we have to deal with this world on a regular basis. For me, it is all about freeing myself.

Agree with all of this. I sometimes think it starts when someone asks Why? of a response to a situation in which compliance could lead to unease or discord.

If this is the case I suppose I first asked Why? when I was about 7, able to compare my parents' expectations with the actions of others. In embryo was awakening to a path away from my parents.
.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by janielee

Were your decisions in life any different, Starman?

They could be different, decision is relative. Though change the past changes all. Keep in mind the thought and hopefully practice of free will and what that means. We sometime forget we must practice such things as free will. Choice. For instance, to learn learn about one's self through practice of meditation though it is not the only way. So there is no one way. Also keep in mind decision may still be in progress. Any person can reach the same decisions and not have to follow exactly what another does. There is no one way. A lot of information was given I agree with also. A person changes if they are mindful. At one time as with everyone, some decision in life were different then decisions (flow) in life now.

Thanks lemex