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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Taoism

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  #11  
Old 15-05-2020, 09:12 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starjumper7
That being said, my favorite translation, which I deem to be both the most on target and also poetic, is the one by Gia Fu Feng and Jane English.
Keep in mind that a lot of versions are interpretations rather than translations.
Well, good! Since that's the one I've loved since the 70s!!
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  #12  
Old 16-05-2020, 11:23 AM
MrBritish MrBritish is offline
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I see your point StarJumper. As someone with only documentary knowledge of the Tao I did not take time to think that the meaning I see may change depending ones deeper wisdom of thmselves and the Tao. Thank you very much for the source, and I will look for this Hia Fu Feng and Jane English translation to see if it may help.
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  #13  
Old 20-05-2020, 12:06 AM
Starjumper7 Starjumper7 is offline
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If you are interested in seeing some conversation on the TTC by some Western Taoists I invite you to check out a forum with the name Original Dao. That's where I usually hang out, because I'm finding this forum doesn't get much action.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2020, 12:53 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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thing is if you read any of the existing translations, you will see a strong bias toward whatever the person doing the translating liked to think about. The first one I read was from a business person, then there are the mystics, and on and on and on. You can't get an accurate reading of this particular book from anyone who has translated it because they all suffer from the same thing you fear: that their misunderstanding of the language had them reading things in that may not have been in the original.

That said, you do have a valid point that if you do it from scratch with little or no knowledge, you risk the same mistakes and worse.

But that depends too, on how well you are willing to question your own interpretations I guess.

I'll be honest I went ahead and translated it anyway. I still have very little knowledge of chinese. I was very bold at the time, I consulted both a chinese AND a japanese dictionary for the symbols. On the theory that the literal meaning of the words wasn't important, the general tendency of what the words were pointing to was at issue. In that sense I felt I had an advantage over other translators... not being so stuck in the trees that I couldn't look for the forest.

I'm satisfied with my own translation, but can I say it is without bias? Probably not. It was still fun to do...
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  #15  
Old 17-03-2022, 05:58 AM
SmilingRock SmilingRock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBritish
I was also wondering whether it would be within my best interest to at one point in my life try at a personal translation.

I agree with the gist of what everyone else has already replied, but I will add a few quick thoughts.

One, yes, most definitely learn the ancient (pre-200 B.C.) version of the written Chinese language, and then do your own translation. A bit of foreknowledge: to adequately grasp useful concepts of the ancient Chinese wording may require the translating of numerous other ancient Chinese books so that you can learn how specific words are used. Zhong Yong, Da Xue, and Xunzi's books are extraordinarily useful of being translated prior to taking a stab at Dao De Jing.

Two, in my own personal experience, English-Chinese dictionaries may be fine for modern phonetic Chinese, but the dictionaries fail rather badly with historical word meanings. There are many Chinese words that have no parallels within the English language (requires the use of descriptive phrases), and so since the needed words do not exist in English, then the English dictionaries cannot offer words that do not exist.

Three, there are many Chinese words that rely on the reader to mentally assemble two or more concepts simultaneously. It is not common in European languages for individuals to be accustomed to assembling concepts, and so some individuals are unable to grasp the words' intentions. Nevertheless, some multiple concepts are easy, like 'monkey' plus 'heart' which could be playfully (and accurately) interpreted as 'monkey brains' or 'dumb'.

Four, many ancient Chinese words also rely on one's firsthand experiences with a topic. If a person does not first have the life experience, then the words cannot be comprehended. Example: a plumber may speak of sweating pipe; unless a person has actually sweated pipe, then the person cannot grasp what it means. 'Float points on a car' is another example. Extremely important relative to Dao De Jing is the self-awareness that enables an individual to self-observe one's own creation of virtue. If an individual has not yet learned self-awareness, and the person has not yet self-observed, then the person will not grasp what virtue is (western philosophy has debated virtue for three-thousand years, and still does not know what it is).

A good and very simple self-test: when an individual is able to enter into a lengthy (verbose) and intricate description of what 八 (divide) means, then that individual will be ready to begin translating Dao De Jing.
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