Anger can be a Gift

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Vivekananda said one has to learn to work the machine (Maya) in order to be liberated from it, so use the tools of the machine to transcend the machine. Those tools are body, mind and the practices of the various traditions, and Advaita places much emphasis on knowledge (Jnana Yoga) though not exclusively.

This is pretty much what happened to me when I had my cognitive behaviour therapy, it was all about rooting around in the gubbins of what creates my perceptual reality to lay it bare then changing it for something more constructive. It also changed my Spirituality some. but then I never took anything for granted prior to that and always questioned what I took as my reality. I didn't want any old garbage in there and I'm probably more picky nowadays.

I also went through what seemed to be 'Ascension symptoms' and that wasn't much fun at the time, it became very unsettling at times. The good part was that I came to be in the 'places' beyond mind and consciousness.

Just right now I'm kinda in a non-man's-land somewhere between ego and self/Atman, as I understand it from a Jungian definition. It's an interesting position, especially in discussions of the self.

Originally Posted by A human Being

As I see it, to realise the self is to be released from the tight knot of fear that's at the root of egoic consciousness (relaxing that tight knot is what spiritual practice is all about, in my opinion).

I've been in a few 'What is the self'-type discussions and the only thing it got me is wondering what the hell people were talking about. The world is Spirituality in splendid isolation is a chaotic place at best. As far as I'm concerned there is no self-realisation or self-anything without a clear understanding of what the self is. When the ego is superimposed on the self what are people actually realised about?

You say that fear is the root of egoic consciousness but where does that belief come from? How much do you personally know about how that belief is formed?

I'm not criticising you, just trying to point something out.

Originally Posted by running

if you understood anything i said. im not suggesting you didn't. you will know emotions and bliss are light years away from one another. entirely different things.

bliss and silence is a path in itself. not to be confused with psychological things of the mind. not that philosophy isnt a great tool. it is and can help immensely. the power is just not something that requires a certain personality, culture, background, or is manufactured by the mind.

I do actually understand everything you've said because I've experienced them, so if your assumption is that I don't know that's not the case. I suppose where I am now is in a state of a kind of 'semi-bliss'.

The difference between us is that you're coming from very much the Spiritual perspective and I'm not criticising that because it's your Spirituality. My Spirituality is very different and I understand the psychological stuff as the framework of my Spirituality. I also know that the ancients in their wisdom spent a lot of time studying what we know as psychology because there are numerous Sanskrit writings about it. It's when you get the "psychological things of the mind" out of the way that the power can emerge, and meditation is not the only way that can happen.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

You say that fear is the root of egoic consciousness but where does that belief come from? How much do you personally know about how that belief is formed?

It comes from observing my own inner life and from observing human behaviour more generally. This fear isn't some dry, abstract concept, it's something visceral that can be felt in the body, and it's something that's pretty much inevitably going to be felt by sentient organisms when they perceive themselves to be separate, tiny fragments in an incomprehensibly vast universe.

And let me be clear about this: I'm not saying it's wrong to feel this fear, and when I say 'egoic consciousness' I'm not using the term in a derogatory sense - the ego has been absolutely necessary for our survival, we wouldn't have made it this far without it. At the same time, however, it becomes a prison, and we won't ever feel truly content and at peace if we remain trapped within its confines.

[running]

Greenslade

i was just going by and responding to your response. for some context i will put in quotes below. copy and pasted. im technically challenged so that will have to do. perhaps explain if i confused about your response. thank you. post 232

"This is where you and I differ. The energetic aspect of it, like anger, is 'generated' by our unconscious and when you change the 'contents' of the unconscious you change how you perceive yourself. That changes your whole reality because how you perceive yourself is directly related to your unconscious. Hopw you perceive yourself is the 'result' of your unconscious."

Originally Posted by Greenslade

This is pretty much what happened to me when I had my cognitive behaviour therapy, it was all about rooting around in the gubbins of what creates my perceptual reality to lay it bare then changing it for something more constructive.

However one can get there, get there, by hook or by crook.

My method is mindfulness meditation and that "disrupts" the neurons that wired together from continually firing together. Eventually through mechanisms of neuroplasticity they unwire and/or rewire. It's the simple practice of letting go of the distraction of a forming thought train (neurons that have wired together and now have a tendency to fire together) that those pathways fall into disuse and eventually disconnect and reconnect in more productive pathways.

I've found it's not even all that important to understand why they wired together. Just the act of continuously disrupting them over and over again and over a long enough period is enough to disconnect and/or reconnect those connections.

I can't peak into my subconscious but I can be aware of what bubbles up from it and very close to the first seed of manifestation. That's the real trick because the further along a thought train has to form beneath the radar of awareness the harder it is to resist going along for the ride and eventual emotional reaction, like anger.

Originally Posted by A human Being

It comes from observing my own inner life and from observing human behaviour more generally. This fear isn't some dry, abstract concept, it's something visceral that can be felt in the body, and it's something that's pretty much inevitably going to be felt by sentient organisms when they perceive themselves to be separate, tiny fragments in an incomprehensibly vast universe

Fear comes from the Limbic System, what's known as the Reptilian Brain. It's about the most primordial part of of what's in our noggins and it's a survival mechanism; the perception of being a separate, tiny fragment to some is a threat to their survival and the fear is the adrenaline rush.

There is the individual ego which Jung describes as "A sense of I am" and we've all got one of those, it provides a reference point from which to have a relationship with the external world. If you didn't have an ego you'd be gone completely gaga and you wouldn't even have the faculties to type a post. What makes an ego individual is the 'contents' or what it 'contains', and if I asked you to describe yourself everything you say after "I am" is the contents of your ego. It's how you perceive yourself. Perceiving yourself as a separate, tiny fragment would be another ego 'content'.

Everything in your reality is relative to your ego and its 'contents' but that's not the whole story, because the ego is relative to your unconscious and its 'contents' - that's where your perceptions of yourself are 'generated'.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

However one can get there, get there, by hook or by crook.

We're already there.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

My method is mindfulness meditation and that "disrupts" the neurons that wired together from continually firing together.

I grab my camera bag and enjoy the ride out, as I'm getting there I'll take notice of where the sun is and now it affects the landscape. Or any of the other things that affect the light. By the time I get a different 'me' takes the time to soak up the ambience before I even open my camera bag. That translates into everyday Life quite nicely.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I can't peak into my subconscious but I can be aware of what bubbles up from it and very close to the first seed of manifestation. That's the real trick because the further along a thought train has to form beneath the radar of awareness the harder it is to resist going along for the ride and eventual emotional reaction, like anger.

You can peek into your unconscious, kinda, because what bubbles up from it is a result of what's in there. Ask yourself the reasons you feel whatever it is you feel, because every emotion is a response to something inside.

Originally Posted by running

Greenslade

i was just going by and responding to your response. for some context i will put in quotes below. copy and pasted. im technically challenged so that will have to do. perhaps explain if i confused about your response. thank you. post 232

We have very different experiences, Running, and very different perspectives. By what you post it seems you have very much the 'Spiritual-centric' perspective on emotions and anger. Form what I've learned in my travels they're one and the same, Spirituality is the "What?" and psychology is the "How?"

You mentioned the energetic aspect but that is created by an unconscious response causing adrenaline to be pumped into the blood stream, until then there is no energy of anger. Anger begins in the bowels of our unconscious.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Anger can most certainly be a powerful gift. Anger is a negative energy/emotion, but negative things can have just as much (if not more) value than positive things.

Yes, yes, and yes. I've been working through some heart centre healing, since it's been a rough couple of years for planet earth as we know, and my heart centre was feeling pain and numbness again due to things needing to surface. Along with a load of suppressed grief was residual anger at myself. Old anger. It's not where I'm living now, but as has been mentioned...it too needs to be acknowledged, felt, and aired. Not denied or buried, but honored properly so it can be released.

My feeling is that I need (as do we all, generally) to be more compassionate, accepting, and forgiving of myself. Anger is a pointer toward truth, balance, and justice, and thus it's also a normal part of the human spiritual experience. It's ok I felt angry at myself back then...even though it took me some time to come to this place. It was a natural response to the situation where I felt at the time my judgment opened me to emotional injury. But now I more see it as living an open heart, one with good intention.

I accept and forgive myself, as I hope we all can do. And I feel in trusting myself, I act truly and in alignment with spirit. In working to heal my heart centre, I want to and hope to trust myself more fully going forward. And thus to allow myself to lead from an open heart once more.

Peace & blessings,
7L