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06-12-2021, 03:55 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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QUOTE 259 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
If you heal that substance either through meditation or through an appropriate energy healing technique, this substance is healed. Then there are no more thought radiations from that substance.
The second way thoughts arise is through associative thinking.
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First of all, I want to welcome you to this site and this thread. Even though you are a "newbie" on this site, your INSIGHTFUL post suggests that you are not a newbie to this subject.
For you information, administrative guidelines are that we limit our quotes to a couple of sentences. Otherwise, I would have quoted more of your post.
In your first statement with the trauma victim example, your understanding is very similar to mine regarding that condition. Once the trauma-related thoughts/mental-activity are healed through meditation or other means, there are indeed no more thoughts arising from that condition. While this certainly applies to trauma cases, it also applies equally in cases addressing other unwelcome tendencies such as addictions.
Your second statement regarding "associative thinking" was of particular interest to me since I have practiced a thought-observation meditation technique which includes creating a seed thought and then observing all the mental associations that arise from it. That seed thought can easily trigger the manifestation of a metaphorical tree with many limbs and branches related to the associative thinking. Far too often, a person will try to address unwelcome tendencies by cutting off the branches one-by-one while a skilled insightful person can trace the associative thoughts back to the source and cut the tree at the root. The HOW could be the subject for an entire thread as this is a very interesting topic.
In any case, I loved your post and hope that you will become a regular here.
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07-12-2021, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 256 EXCERPT:
Nicely put. The IDENTIFICATION with certain thoughts can indeed create a sense of separation when, in Reality, there is "no separation".
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Identification, it is “THE LILA or PLAY or MAYA or IGNORANCE or any name one wishes to call this COSMOS”.
But, the same IDENTIFICATION can remove the separation, by ‘identifying’ oneself to “THAT”, from which he got separated due to his previous identifications.
This IDENTIFICATION is the crux/purpose of
- JNAYA YOG - identifying the “I” with “THE ONE” by “na iti, na iti”, “who am I?”,
- BHAKTI YOG - identifying oneself as “devotee”
- RAJA YOG - identifying with “GOD” as object in total concentration (DHYANA)
- KARMA YOG - identifying oneself as “not the doer”
IDENTIFICATION is BONDAGE. But with what one bonds with, is all matters. If one identifies he is SATAN, he becomes so. If he identifies as both DREAMER AND DREAM, he becomes so. If he identifies with ONE-PURE CONSCIOUSNESS-BLISSFUL, he becomes so. If he identifies himself as “non-self” and “no god” and full of emptiness, he becomes so. If he identifies ‘everything is temporary’, it is so. If he identifies ‘everything is Permanent’, it is so. If he identifies ‘GOD is Permanent/temporary’, it is so.
All IDENTIFICATION, is based on “THOUGHTS”. No one can say, there is true knowledge to identify nor false thoughts. Even the top level knowledge(GOD-thought), is an effect of identification (consciously Identifying as ‘I AM’), also the intellectual/other thoughts - an effect of identification. The true knowledge of all scriptures, is just an identification, to put an end to rebirth in this diseased Universe. Those true-knowledge or GOD-thought or INTELLIGENCE, is all thought too, which can be said neither true/right/real knowledge nor false/illusion/unreal thoughts, but a MEANS to end this KARMIC universe for oneself if he desires to.
Pleasure,pain,sufferings,emotions,friendship,enemy ,Guru,disciple,knowledge,ignorance,desires,experie nce,physical,psychological,spiritual,you,me - everything is an effect bound to this “IDENTIFICATION”.
Even “AUM”, three states, four vedas,etc.. - is all matter of Identification, because who knows in next universe, whether there will be four/many vedas, three/many states. All is bound to this “IDENTIFICATION”.
One gets drive into this spirituality, when he suffered a lot of Physical universe. If one says, “no. I didn’t came to know spirituality through sufferings”, then of-course he is really not serious enough, and reads/thinks all scriptures/sayings, only for Knowledge/experience to increase the ‘pride’ or ‘followers’ or ‘money’ or whatever he wants from this universe. Even LOVE/COMPASSION, one seeks is for Better living/relationship in this world, for a peaceful LIFE of 100 years. Knowledge and experience, whatever the form may be, physical or spiritual, becomes the seed for ‘pride’, to bring more ‘eyes on him’, that he got something from these much years of experience, where one doesn’t know even these experiences of physical/spiritual/many re-births/dream, is itself real or not. What a PLAY…
All the scriptures has the essence of spirit/god/whatever one thinks, and even just ‘one sentence’ of knowledge is enough, if he is that much serious - doesn’t need anything/beauty in this universe and wants to put an end to it.
IDENTIFICATION matters.
Namaste.
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08-12-2021, 07:48 AM
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Knower
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: India
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 259 EXCERPT:
First of all, I want to welcome you to this site and this thread.
I have practiced a thought-observation meditation technique which includes creating a seed thought and then observing all the mental associations
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Thank you for the warm welcome. Also appreciate your ideas about seed thoughts. That is a very interesting subject. Could you share some of your experiences?
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08-12-2021, 02:51 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
Thank you for the warm welcome. Also appreciate your ideas about seed thoughts. That is a very interesting subject. Could you share some of your experiences?
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While I can give you many experiential examples, a very practical experience comes to mind regarding the nature of healing both for myself personally and, very recently, for a young Austrian friend of mine. Both cases are very well documented.
Many years ago, I had a mind-boggling life-transforming NDE (near death experience) during which I emerged completely SYMPTOM-FREE from a 3-day "irreversible coma". That shocked the doctors who had predicted that, in the unlikely event of survival, there would be severe brain/organ damage. This experience served as a catalyst to spiritual exploration which included investigating how such healing phenomena are possible.
At a later time, I learned about similar instantaneous healing experiences with people with the Multiple Personality Disorder (now called a Dissociative Identity Disorder). In these well-documented cases, a person can have a serious disease such as diabetes which vanishes immediately with the emergence of an alternate personality. In addition to the above, I came across other spontaneous or gradual healing cases which led me to the conclusion that thoughts and mental associations are a significant factor (though NOT the only factor) in healing physical ailments as well as post-traumatic-stress (which is related to the "trauma" example which you mentioned) and other unwelcome conditions.
JAKOB'S STORY - A GREAT EXAMPLE:
With that in mind, I want to proceed to an excellent very well-documented example about health, thoughts, and mental associations. I met a young Austrian fellow here in NYC about 5 years ago when he was a somewhat depressed 23-year-old who had been diagnosed with the INCURABLE degenerative neurological disease Ataxia. His doctors had told him that he would soon lose the ability to walk (wheelchair-bound) and even to talk. You can probably imagine to at least some degree what thoughts and mental associations were going through his mind when I first met him.
We discussed what I wrote above and a lot more. It was important for him to BELIEVE that a healing was at least possible and that his thoughts/mental-associations were a factor. Even though he lives in Vienna, we have stayed in touch since we met (I love WhatsAPP) and he has visited me in NYC several times since our initial meeting as we focused on his thoughts and mental associations which were initially depressed .... but, as he REVERSED the disease ... became increasingly positive. To make a long story short, Jakob has REVERSED this incurable disease through positive thinking, meditation, and holistic practices. He REFUSED to accept the seed thoughts presented by his doctors along with the diagnostic mental associations. He cut the metaphorical tree at the root and planted a positive healing seed thought with accompanying visualization mental associations. He is doing quite well today.
The reason I picked Jakob's story is because it clearly points out the process of observing thoughts and mental associations. In addition, it demonstrates how healing CAN (not always) take place via the mind-body-spirit connection. Lastly, for skeptics, Jakob's story is WELL-DOCUMENTED as a documentary was done about him and it premiered in Vienna on August 28th, 2021. Since then, it has been nominated for Best Documentary of the Year.
For your information, I started a thread on Jakob's story on this site with a link to the documentary. Even though it is in German (the primary language in Austria), there are many video clips of Jakob which will give you some insight into his energy throughout the healing process. The documentary includes interviews with his doctors (in German) as they fill in the pieces to Jakob's story from a medical as well as an attitudinal (positive thinking and meditation) perspective.
Here is the link to that thread which contains more info on Jakob's story. In keeping with the theme of this thread, I focused here on thoughts, how one can identify unwelcome seed thoughts and mental associations, and how one can cut that metaphorical tree at the root (depressive in this case) and create NEW POSITIVE seed thoughts with accompanying mental associations (and, in this case, positive physical body transformations as well since the health of the physical body is strongly connected to thoughts/consciousness).
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...d.php?t=142139
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08-12-2021, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I focused here on thoughts, how one can identify unwelcome seed thoughts and mental associations, and how one can cut that metaphorical tree at the root (depressive in this case) and create NEW POSITIVE seed thoughts with accompanying mental associations (and, in this case, positive physical body transformations as well since the health of the physical body is strongly connected to thoughts/consciousness).
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Greetings STILL_WATERS. Nice to meet you again.
These experiences are rare, profound, not comes to many. One must be blessed for these Experiences and Healing thoughts.
But, sir, this is all focus of only Thoughts, but not soul/spirit. The soul, has nothing to do with these kind of Healings. It may impress normal people - who must be motivated from negative thoughts, which I do for my schizophrenic elder brother, so it can/will change their life, and it slowly happens too. The yogis too, with their focus, heal their bodily/psychological wounds to heal.
But this is all limited in TIME. Bcz, can you bring back the one who died with this healing/positive thoughts? Or, say one is at age of 120, can he with this POSITIVE-HEALING THOUGHT, live an immortal or another 120 years life?
If it is possible for putting away death itself with this POSITIVE-HEALING thought, then please don't limit yourself with the power of thought only for 'wound/psychic healing', but extend it to bring back life, or extend life to immortal, so it can help billions of life to put an end to death and live immortal in this world.
If it is not possible to put away death, as you are a real spiritual seeker I know, and as a senior/mentor I see you as, please don't get caught in this mind/thought games as 'surprising/impressive'. I don't have those, but even if one has those, it will only stop one from "Truth or GOD" in his Pathless Path. These HEALING thoughts are also limitations, and mind game - which blocks one form spirit/soul realization.
Even to say, all experiences/healings happened, is destined to be happened, and one should move beyond those too. Why I say destiny is, many normal/common people say, "it is only my effort caused these", it's not true and just develop pride/ego. The next level, devoted people say, "It is God's grace", which may be. But to the top level, people/sages say "No. It's not my effort, it's all happened to be experienced by me bcz of Time/destiny/Karma", which view put away all pride things and go further in their path and not got stuck.
Please take time and think about it. Please don't think I'm hurting you, but see the intensity why I keep on saying this, what happens when one gets stuck with this 'magic of thought', is this experience also has an end and these "Healing-positive thoughts" also brings sufferings even though it heals body/mind? What is Life? Why one should go beyond Life and Death too and stop his longing experiences of Thought/life's beauty/magic? Does these "Healing thoughts" and "beautiful life" covers the "unlimited bliss" beyond "life-death-loop"?
Just please please don't advice these to spiritual seekers. It's okay for Beautiful Life seekers, and that too has limitations. You too, don't speak or think or stuck with these amusements.
Thank you. Sorry.
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09-12-2021, 05:26 PM
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Knower
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: India
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
While I can give you many experiential examples, a very practical experience comes to mind regarding the nature of healing both for myself personally and, very recently, for a young Austrian friend of mine. Both cases are very well documented.
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Reminds me of my own diagnosis of lung cancer a few years back, which is now completely healed, through meditation and affirmations. (something like your seed thoughts idea).
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09-12-2021, 07:29 PM
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Knower
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 156
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Keeping it simple, thoughts arise naturally of thinking consciousness and become entangled when a thinker is inserted into the flow.
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09-12-2021, 09:52 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
Reminds me of my own diagnosis of lung cancer a few years back, which is now completely healed, through meditation and affirmations. (something like your seed thoughts idea).
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Your healing experience has a lot in common with the example that I just posted.
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09-12-2021, 09:53 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingalways
Keeping it simple, thoughts arise naturally of thinking consciousness and become entangled when a thinker is inserted into the flow.
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The process of entanglement is a particularly interesting phenomenon to observe, as you duly noted.
Thank you for sharing!
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10-12-2021, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
While I can give you many experiential examples, a very practical experience comes to mind regarding the nature of healing both for myself personally.
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Sorry for the post/reply #265 sir.
I should not advice/suggest anyone, and also not hurt. I'm forgetting this always.
I was going in a ignorant way - that finding faults in someone and making them right, where personally I don't know which one is right/wrong/true/false, experience matters/not for speaking, etc...
All are free to choose whatever they seek. It only shows me, how I don't see "THE ONE" in all - separating me from everyone/everything.
Thank you sir and everyone.
Namaste.
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