Importance of stillness / meditation

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by deLord

Since Miss Hepburn asked me to open a new thread for this, I decided that it might be a good idea :)

I meditate twice daily with increasing duration for a few years now. Still being very easily distracted especially by thoughts. No ekaggata yet (btw 2 wiki articles?? Ekagrata <> Ekaggata)

1) Does anyone have any idea on why stillness is THAT important? For the rational mind this is not understandable. Especially when it comes to that enlightenment and siddhis are achieved by this method.

2) Maybe someone can give me advice on why it is worth investing many hours per day on sadhana instead of living an "ordinary" life.
How can I convince myself that meditation is worth doing?
I mean, I do meditate daily but right now, I just believe that it will lead somewhere beyond material bounds. No one has shown me. I have no idea whether it helps for telepathy, healing abilities, anything useful or permanent bliss.
It's not like muscle training where I can tell "yeah I can see my muscles growing BECAUSE OF the training".
With meditation, I do it based on blind belief which is something I usually don't like very much. I cannot tell whether it helps for anything - and this is after a few years of already doing it.
Without having reached enlightenment, how can anyone know that attaining enlightenment if far far better than "just" attaining a siddhi (story of the 2 brothers and the ferryman)? I imagine someone who never fell in love. How are you gonna describe to him what he misses? I think it's impossible. It's like describing colors to a (color-)blind.

3) I've still not completely come to terms with the duality of "do nothing - universe will do/give everything necessary" vs "you have to do some work / sadhana". So --- which one is it? Why not play computer all day? Or completey ignore the spiritual way; if nothing can be achieved but only given by grace or surrender (I do not yet completely understand this concept).

What do you think?

I have practiced meditation ---- particularly the stillness --- for many years under the guidance of extraordinary beings.

In stillness, one soars like an eagle beyond the limited separatist ego into the sky of consciousness and "knows without thinking" all that one needs to know. As BigJohn mentioned, that is where the "magic" starts. In stillness, there is a power into which one taps quite naturally .... but it is a transformed one at that point. Having been tutored by extraordinary beings in the nature of the practice, one then realizes that virtually anything is possible when one is firmly established in that non-dual stillness.

Buddha focused his teachings on the methodology but refused to discuss metaphysics. He would "respond" to such questions with the Noble Silence or he would tell questioners to PRACTICE first (going beyond the body, feelings, and mental activity into that which lies beyond) and then see if they had any questions.

[Happy Wanderer]

As a relative newcomer to the forum, may I add some thoughts to this fascinating thread?

Throughout, it sounds as though meditation is practiced for the spiritual benefit of the sitter. Yet the guide, Joseph, channelled by Michael Reccia* tells of the need to meditate for the benefit of the spirit world. Mankind is messing up big-time and creating a huge pool of negativity and darkness, which those of understanding can help to dissipate by the practice of meditation. Basically, providing light and love to the spirit world.

*I have no commercial interests in promoting the books written by Joseph and Michael, in case anyone is wondering! It's just that I have read many of the books (published by Band of Light media,) and have found the subject matter resonates with me.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Starman

deLord, stillness conserves energy. Just about everything that we do, except sleeping, uses up our energy and tires us out. So we rest up by sitting down or laying down to rejuvenate ourselves. Basically stillness rejuvenates us. Well inner silence and stillness rejuvenates us as well. The meditation experience is like taking a break from activity, and when that break includes our mental activity, it catapults us into another dimension of perception. A dimension that we do not perceive through our thoughts. The longer and more consistently a person stays quiet and still inside the more they nurture building up spiritual energy within themselves and expanding their own presence. This is my experience.

Nice points on stillness.

When I was at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar, India, I personally met a sadhu who hadn't slept in the traditional manner for years.

His mind was so still that he conserved energy, as you duly mentioned, and was always in a peaceful state. When inspired, he would speak to his disciples throughout the day and night, however, but it would be "knowing without thinking" and communicating without thinking. Thinking disturbs the stillness.

The stillness is absolutely awesome. In meditative stillness,all is revealed.

[Miss Hepburn]

Speaking of stillness - all Yogananda folks will be meditating all day today the 19th if you want to join in.
They will have a live thing online ---they do this wacky thing every hour- they chime and then chant/sing.
It REALLY disturbs my meditation!!!
I had to stop going to the local group...of course, they don't gather anymore for awhile.
(What was Yogananda thinking!?) Sorry, it's nuts - plus keeping the rooms SO cold!
La-lalala - sorry. (I take long mediation pretty seriously - it's nuts.)

[deLord]

@Still Waters: when you say "all is revealed" - does this also include mundane things as everything about past/present/future of other people? If so, I'd like to test this claim. Please tell me whether you are interested.
Yes, I am fully aware there may be more important things than my grandmother's name or reasons/solutions for bodily problems but this hopefully isn't an excuse to not demonstrate this claim to someone who is open to it.

Originally Posted by deLord

@Still Waters: when you say "all is revealed" - does this also include mundane things as everything about past/present/future of other people? If so, I'd like to test this claim. Please tell me whether you are interested.
Yes, I am fully aware there may be more important things than my grandmother's name or reasons/solutions for bodily problems but this hopefully isn't an excuse to not demonstrate this claim to someone who is open to it.

All is revealed is a reference to the self-revealing nature of Consciousness (read Self). It's hidden by habits of mind. In non-duality if one knows Self one knows everything because Self is everything.

Stillness only gets one so far and as far as I'm concerned one also needs understanding, knowledge. In other words a philosophy, and meditation is a technique developed in the Eastern philosophies as one practice on the path of self-realization.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by deLord

@Still Waters: when you say "all is revealed" - does this also include mundane things as everything about past/present/future of other people? If so, I'd like to test this claim. Please tell me whether you are interested.
Yes, I am fully aware there may be more important things than my grandmother's name or reasons/solutions for bodily problems but this hopefully isn't an excuse to not demonstrate this claim to someone who is open to it.

Like yourself, I have always been inclined to "test the claims" of others and I encourage you to do so. Once one has direct experiences, one becomes firmly established in one's practice regardless of what others may say or teach or believe. Many speculate ... but those with direct experiences do NOT speculate... they KNOW.

Let me share with you one of my breakthrough moments which happened over 30 years ago. I like to use it because it is particularly dramatic and had a great impact on me.

My spiritual mentor was one of the sages of India and she spoke once at my home to about 30 friends and acquaintances. At the end, she looked at me and told me that I should always follow my "pure intuition". I said that I did,but she repeatedly said that I didn't. She then added that, when I had my next "pure intuition" , I should follow through on it unquestionably and I would learn something important.

The very next morning, I was sitting in my room meditating. Normally, I could enter the stillness quite easily (through mantra and various other techniques). On this particular morning,I could not remain completely still. There was a disturbance which I considered quite unwelcome initially but soon discovered that it was an urgent message from the "higher power" to which one connects in that stillness. What kept appearing in dream-like fashion was a message that the gay boyfriend of an acquaintance of mine was in mortal danger and that I had to see him that very day as "tomorrow would be too late". This was bizarre especially since I had only a minor connection with this acquaintance and did not even know his boyfriend.

As much as I tried to get this out of my mind, this vision would not go away. Then I remembered my teacher's words to follow through on my "pure intuition" but I wondered whether this was indeed "pure intuition". I concluded that it was "pure intuition" since I would not gain anything from following through on this, wanted it to go away, and did not want to appear foolish by repeating this to a casual acquaintance who might understandably consider it bizarre.

Nonetheless, I hesitatingly followed through on this and called my acquaintance but delivered this message only after telling him the the story about my teacher. I defensively added that, if he thought it was crazy, I would not pursue it further. To my surprise, he confided that his boyfriend had been acting strangely the past few days and he was worried about him. He then called his boyfriend and told me that his boyfriend wanted to see me that very day and that it was very important that I come immediately.

I then took the subway into Manhattan (a ride of almost an hour) to meet this fellow for the very first time with this "bizarre" message. By the time I arrived, my acquaintance had already shown up to be with his boyfriend.

When I told the fellow about my vision that he was in mortal danger and that I had to see him today because tomorrow would be too late, he started to cry.

He then confided that he had tested positive for AIDS twice very recently and that, since his boyfriend was heading out of town that evening on a business trip, he had everything he needed in his apartment to commit suicide that evening. He prayed that, if he was not supposed to do that, that there be a very clear unmistakable sign. This, he said , was the sign.

Like myself, he redirected his life considerably to a yoga/meditation lifestyle similar to mine and, within a year, he repeatedly tested NEGATIVE.

I can only imagine how I would have felt if I had not followed through on that "pure intuition" and had learned the following day that the young fellow had committed suicide.

In any case, since that time, I have had numerous experiences of this nature (but not usually as dramatic and life-threatening ) and I learned to trust the "pure intuition" that emerges from the stillness. In that stillness, one connects with an expanded consciousness (a "higher power" to some) that reveals anything and everything that is important to know.

Shortly before my teacher crossed over in 2015, I asked her a question. She responded, "You're an experienced meditator. Meditate and all will be revealed. Besides, I won't be here much longer". Within two months, she crossed over but her words still resonate with me even now. "Meditate and all will be revealed". I have no doubts whatsoever regarding this and, now, whenever I have a "pure intuition" in the stillness, I follow through on it and it guides me far more unerringly than my little separatist intellectual ego.

P.S. I hope that this addresses to some extent your question about whether this "includes mundane things as everything about past/present/future of other people". What is important to be revealed is revealed, and nothing more since it does not address idle curiosity or any attempt to take advantage of others. "Pure intuition" acts only in the best interests of all.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Like yourself, I have always been inclined to "test the claims" of others and I encourage you to do so. Once one has direct experiences, one becomes firmly established in one's practice regardless of what others may say or teach or believe. Many speculate ... but those with direct experiences do NOT speculate... they KNOW.

Let me share with you one of my breakthrough moments which happened over 30 years ago. I like to use it because it is particularly dramatic and had a great impact on me.

My spiritual mentor was one of the sages of India and she spoke once at my home to about 30 friends and acquaintances. At the end, she looked at me and told me that I should always follow my "pure intuition". I said that I did,but she repeatedly said that I didn't. She then added that, when I had my next "pure intuition" , I should follow through on it unquestionably and I would learn something important.

The very next morning, I was sitting in my room meditating. Normally, I could enter the stillness quite easily (through mantra and various other techniques). On this particular morning,I could not remain still. What kept appearing in dream-like fashion was a message that the gay boyfriend of an acquaintance of mine was in mortal danger and that I had to see him that very day as "tomorrow would be too late". This was bizarre especially since I had only a minor connection with this acquaintance and did not even know his boyfriend.

As much as I tried to get this out of my mind, this vision would not go away. Then I remembered my teacher's words to follow through on my "pure intuition" but I wondered whether this was indeed "pure intuition". I concluded that it was "pure intuition" since I would not gain anything from following through on this, wanted it to go away, and did not want to appear foolish by repeating this to a casual acquaintance who might understandably consider it bizarre.

Nonetheless, I hesitatingly followed through on this and called my acquaintance but delivered this message only after telling him the the story about my teacher. I defensively added that, if he thought it was crazy, I would not pursue it further. To my surprise, he confided that his boyfriend had been acting strangely the past few days and he was worried about him. He then called his boyfriend and told me that his boyfriend wanted to see me that very day and that it was very important that I come immediately.

I then took the subway into Manhattan (a ride of almost an hour) to meet this fellow for the very first time with this "bizarre" message. By the time I arrived, my acquaintance had already shown up to be with his boyfriend.

When I told the fellow about my vision that he was in mortal danger and that I had to see him today because tomorrow would be too late, he started to cry.

He then confided that he had tested positive for AIDS twice very recently and that, since his boyfriend was heading out of town that evening on a business trip, he had everything he needed in his apartment to commit suicide that evening. He prayed that, if he was not supposed to do that, that there be a very clear unmistakable sign. This, he said , was the sign.

Like myself, he redirected his life considerably to a yoga/meditation lifestyle similar to mine and, within a year, he repeatedly tested NEGATIVE.

I can only imagine how I would have felt if I had not followed through on that "pure intuition" and had learned the following day that the young fellow had committed suicide.

In any case, since that time, I have had numerous experiences of this nature (but not usually as dramatic and life-threatening ) and I learned to trust the "pure intuition" that emerges from the stillness. In that stillness, one connects with an expanded consciousness (a "higher power" to some) that reveals anything and everything that is important to know.

Shortly before my teacher crossed over in 2015, I asked her a question. She responded, "You're an experienced meditator. Meditate and all will be revealed. Besides, I won't be here much longer". Within two months, she crossed over but her words still resonate with me even now. "Meditate and all will be revealed". I have no doubts whatsoever regarding this and, now, whenever I have a "pure intuition" in the stillness, I follow through on it and it guides me far more unerringly than my little separatist intellectual ego.

P.S. I hope that this addresses to some extent your question about whether this "includes mundane things as everything about past/present/future of other people". What is important to be revealed is revealed, and nothing more since it does not address idle curiosity or any attempt to take advantage of others. "Pure intuition" acts only in the best interests of all.

That's not all that much different than this.

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...60&postcount=6

Out of nowhere I was overcome by a feeling of unease. I took a minute or so to do a body scan, experiencing the sensation and it passed. I loaded all my gear into the truck and started to drag the kayak to the truck when the feeling came back but more powerful. Something like foreboding. In the same manner as described in the previous post this came to me: "Pay attention. Something's going to happen.". I did the same as earlier, scanning the body for the sensation and it subsided a bit but this time would not disappear.

This wasn't specific like yours but it was a premonition or precognition, it came out of nowhere and unbidden, and it was distinctly uncomfortable, even disturbing. I didn't know its meaning until half an hour or so later when I came upon the scene.

Since I've been regularly sitting I've had lots and lots of much more minor intuitions and synchronicities that I might write off to coincidence except for their frequency. Calling or thinking about calling people when they're thinking about calling me or call me. Simultaneously emailing coworkers about a specific subject and in the same context and far removed from the proximate event. That is it's not something we were just discussing but from days if not weeks before. Hunches about root causes of obscure software bugs that most dismiss and on the surface don't seem to be logically connected and wouldn't be in the normal methodological steps of analysis and debugging. It's beyond uncanny.

Still it seems to me this is only icing on the cake, so to speak, as it's all still of the finite and temporary whereas the main goal of meditation is to get mind out of the way of Self's self-revealing nature. It's said the Yogi who pursues Siddhis has lost the way as they are but another potential focal point of attachment.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

That's not all that much different than this.

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...60&postcount=6

Out of nowhere I was overcome by a feeling of unease. I took a minute or so to do a body scan, experiencing the sensation and it passed. I loaded all my gear into the truck and started to drag the kayak to the truck when the feeling came back but more powerful. Something like foreboding. In the same manner as described in the previous post this came to me: "Pay attention. Something's going to happen.". I did the same as earlier, scanning the body for the sensation and it subsided a bit but this time would not disappear.

This wasn't specific like yours but it was a premonition or precognition, it came out of nowhere and unbidden, and it was distinctly uncomfortable, even disturbing. I didn't know its meaning until half an hour or so later when I came upon the scene.

Since I've been regularly sitting I've had lots and lots of much more minor intuitions and synchronicities that I might write off to coincidence except for their frequency. Calling or thinking about calling people when they're thinking about calling me or call me. Simultaneously emailing coworkers about a specific subject and in the same context and far removed from the proximate event. That is it's not something we were just discussing but from days if not weeks before. Hunches about root causes of obscure software bugs that most dismiss and on the surface don't seem to be logically connected and wouldn't be in the normal methodological steps of analysis and debugging. It's beyond uncanny.

Still it seems to me this is only icing on the cake, so to speak, as it's all still of the finite and temporary whereas the main goal of meditation is to get mind out of the way of Self's self-revealing nature. It's said the Yogi who pursues Siddhis has lost the way as they are but another potential focal point of attachment.

You have provided additional excellent and similar examples for OP. Hopefully, this will be helpful to him.

Your last statement is right on target: "It's said the Yogi who pursues Siddhis has lost the way as they are but another potential focal point of attachment."

That's why I specifically noted that "what is important to be revealed ... is revealed". One abides in stillness without looking for anything such as siddhis. The quest for siddhis is a distraction, as you wisely implied. What is "needed" in any given moment is provided for one who abides in stillness and is firmly established in the Self (capital "S" is significant, as you probably suspected anyway).

Nice post.

P.S. I might add that this is the perfectly "normal" state.... eventually. Such experiences should not trigger pride as this happens quite naturally to anyone and everyone who "restoreth the soul".

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

You have provided additional excellent and similar examples for OP. Hopefully, this will be helpful to him.

Your last statement is right on target: "It's said the Yogi who pursues Siddhis has lost the way as they are but another potential focal point of attachment."

That's why I specifically noted that "what is important to be revealed ... is revealed". One abides in stillness without looking for anything such as siddhis. The quest for siddhis is a distraction, as you wisely implied. What is "needed" in any given moment is provided for one who abides in stillness and is firmly established in the Self (capital "S" is significant, as you probably suspected anyway).

Nice post.

P.S. I might add that this is the perfectly "normal" state.... eventually. Such experiences should not trigger pride as this happens quite naturally to anyone and everyone who "restoreth the soul".

Yes and thanks!

This is that deep inner silence. It revealed Itself to me through practicing resting in awareness, and once "touched" it's impossible to "untouch". https://youtu.be/SSeT9Ewofu4?t=3001

It's always there and available to anyone and everyone and all of the time (after all it's our One true nature - Self), however it's just not recognized by most. With determination and enough practice anyone can rest in It during practice, and the more one practices the more one finds one's self resting in It outside of formal sitting.

One way I work on cultivating that state of being outside of formal meditation practice is the Karma Yoga practice of Work as Witness, where as often as I remember I "sink" into that space and realize I'm not the doer of action, but the Witness.

https://krishna.org/what-is-action-a...t-is-inaction/

“One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities.” (Bhagavad Gita 4.18)