Biblical Translations

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Busby

the Bible is a confusing, sometimes utterly evil, uncaring, unloving collection of fabricated imaginings of misled people.

But why do people who have a broader spiritual understanding and who can look beyond the belief-specific doctrine, focus on that stuff or even care? There are cruel stories of evil in fairy tales as well. When I pick up the Bible and study a passage, I look for the inspired bits, the brilliant metaphysical wisdom. It's the same with spiritual discussion. I ignore talk about demons and entities and evil, because I'm too busy living and contemplating upon the joyful, stupendous, miraculous aspects of life.

[DavidMcCann]

There are two points here, texts and translations.

Western churches and the Jews use the Masoretic Hebrew text of the Old Testament which is very late — 10th century AD! Eastern churches use the Septuagint, a Greek translation made in the 2nd century BC, which is also the text quoted in the New Testament. The Dead Sea Scrolls show that the Septuagint often preserves a better reading. But for the average reader, the difference doesn't matter very much.

Jewish and Protestant OTs differ from Catholic and Orthodox ones on leaving out the so-called Apocrypha, merely because it's not written in Hebrew! From the doctrinal point of view, some of its books, like Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom, are more compatible with Christian belief than Ecclesiastes in the OT.

The text of the New Testament was settled much closer to the time at which it was written, but there are a still a few problems. Origen, who lived only a couple of centuries after Mark, said that the last paragraph of Mark's gospel was a recent addition that he'd never seen in old copies. Since that paragraph is the only part of that gospel that describes the disciples seeing the risen Jesus, the fact that it was not written by Mark is rather important!

When it comes to translation, get a modern version, and not one associated with some group who have their own agenda to push. When I was studying the Bible, I used the "New English Bible" (revised as the "Revised English Bible"). It was produced by excellent scholars who also adopted the modern approach to translation: work out what the author was saying and then say it in your own language, rather than trying to render the text word for word. I also used the "[New] Jerusalem Bible", which prefers the Septuagint to the Hebrew when it's backed by the Dead Sea Scrolls. The most popular translation in the USA, the "New International Bible", is too consciously Protestant in my opinion, and the "English Standard Version" is also much too literal.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Justme1981

My suspicion is they are hiding things; nothing conspiracy theory like but the Vatican knows that some or much of what is passed off as the New Testament is probably inaccurate but, but, but beneficial to the Church.

IMO, all conspiracies like: 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the JFK murder, hiding of UFO evidence at Roswell and Alien/UFO evidence in general, etc. are for the purpose of "benefiting" a very few, rich and powerful individuals who remain well hidden from the public so most folks think "conspiracies" are jokes. I'd imagine that the Church is just about as rich and powerful as anything on earth EXCEPT the Source - the greatest "conspirator" of all!

Well, this is a really good question.

My first guru (a very long story) explained to me that the bible and most other scriptural writings, is written in a kind of code or metaphor so whatever is in there needs to be seen from an esoteric or mystical perspective and NOT literally. He demonstrated a few biblical passages to show the hidden, mystical meaning of them but I don't remember much of what he said. I have come to see, for myself, that things like: "I am the way." probably need to be read as "The I am of every living being is the way." In other words the inner, personal consciousness of everyone is the way to heaven, divinity, the lord, reality, the Source or whatever it's called lately. The basic clue is to try to see the deeper and more esoteric meaning of scriptural passages in any culture. IMO, the Hindus and most oriental cultures have done a better job of offering messages, pointers and teachings in esoteric terms than anything in the West although Christian mystics like, Meister Eckhart have tried offering Westerners some glimpses of mystical/esoteric understanding and realizations. It has often been said that most Westerners simply cannot cope with mystical or metaphysical information so the scriptures are written as metaphors or down to a child's level for them. Ultimately, the scriptures invite us to find and follow our own, inner conscience so, perhaps we don't need heavy, deep and profound, mystical messages to be able to "do unto others" or "love thy neighbor" or "know your self", etc. and let go of all those confusing scriptures and writings.
My 1st guru taught me about Self Inquiry rather than studying all those heavy and confusing scriptures and other writings.
Justme, I appreciate what you wrote about the Bible.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by khallianen

The one thing in the bible that has bothered me all my life is the 32 verses that talk of fearing the LORD. That just doesn't feel right to me at all, ever. Since I cannot get past that I don't believe any translation is correct.

That always bothered me since I had a very FRIGHTENING dad and saw god as a terrifying father figure. Later in life, I came to believe that the word "fear" might have actually meant: RESPECT, LOVE, HONOR, FOLLOW, etc. and looking up issues of biblical translations reveals that many terms like "fear" can have very different meanings when translated from the original text(s). I believe the early church WANTED to scare the public with their god and threatening teachings such as Hell to gain control of the Rabble and perhaps the Church (whatever that is) still wants CONTROL OF US.
I want to believe that at least some translations are correct but not until I can or will do my own translating and not have to rely on the work or good/bad intentions of others.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Baile

There is a very good, very conscious translation online, bible.com. But it doesn't highlight or shed new light the metaphysical content, which would be the only reason I'd be interested in it.

IMO and experience, Yogis, Swamis, Monks and other Eastern, enlightened, folks can interpret the Bible better than anybody because they come at the current (and maybe even the original) writings from an esoteric or mystical perspective and UNDERSTANDING.
Even modern, Western sages and mystics can explain the Bible way better than most ministers, preachers and Church folks who are stuck in traditional, strictly literal examinations of the writings.

[MARDAV70]

Originally Posted by Busby

The one thing we can be sure of is that if God him/her/its-self really wanted us to know of him/her/it (as we somehow imagine he/she/it should be) then the Bible would be telling us exactly the same today as it once presumably did. And it would be clear, concise and precise so that everyone would be able to understand it without question. Just like the Highway Code in fact.
I've said it my whole adult life and I'll continue to say it; the Bible is a confusing, sometimes utterly evil, uncaring, unloving collection of fabricated imaginings of misled people.
In many ways it is that which was never said in this book that would be the most important information the world needs/needed to get off its backside.
To think that theology, something quite unfounded is taught at our universities - we deserve what we get.

Amen, amen, amen...!!! I've contemplated these exact same sentiments...! Thanks for saying it so well, Busby.

[wolfgaze]

Mistranslations of Hebrew & Greek terms such as - Sheol, Hades, Tartarus, and Gehanna to mean the commonly accepted concept of 'hell'

Mistranslations of Greek terms Aion/Aionios to mean "eternal, everlasting" when this term by itself did not carry this meaning

________________

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

and the Zohar (which also doubles a nice insomnia treatment!)

LOL!....

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Only four of Jesus' disciples had their gospels published in it

I have to ask myself, if these were actual firsthand accounts authored by the alleged disciples - why are they written from the 3rd-person perspective? The authors do not utilize pronouns such as "I" or "We" - in other words, the narrator does not include himself in the accounting of what transpired. I find this highly suspect... If someone is an eyewitness to something it is only natural to include oneself in the re-telling of what was witnessed/observed. Where do we commonly see the 3rd-person perspective employed in various literary works? When an author is writing a fictional novel/account and therefore is not actually a part of the events/experiences being described....

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

When an author is writing a fictional novel/account and therefore is not actually a part of the events/experiences being described....

All the more reason to follow one's own conscience and understanding of right/wrong rather than so-called inspired scriptures and ancient texts that some so-called authority has translated for you.
As jesus said: "I am IS the way." Your I am!

[Macsen1961]

A wise Indian once said to a White man:

You have one book which is the word of your god, but none of you can agree as to what it says.

The oldest translation of the bible is housed in a museum in Athens, dates back to around 600.

Individual gospels have been found that date to earlier centuries.

The earliest gospel was not written down till about 75 years after the death of Jesus.

And all the gospels are based on oral traditions.

My favorite saying (concerning both the new and old testaments) is that God may have been the author, but man was the editor.

[Interuniversalism]

It depends on what you are really looking for. Are you looking for words that lead you to a path of spirituality? Let me tell you that you won't find it. You can't find it because spirituality beyond words. No scripture can explain it because it is an experience and realization that does not belong to the physical world. If you just want to research about Bible then that is fine. Go and work on the correct translation. But if you are strongly "strongly" strive for experiencing the truth, the present Bible gives you the hint. If you read it and say I believe or now I know or I don't believe it, either way, you have reached the dead end of physical border. But only when you realize that there sure is something and I DON'T know it, only then, you start observing without judgment. Perception comes from not knowing ànd strongly wanting to know. And when you experience it you won't be able to put it into words and then you understand why much of what you had read made no sense at the time.