Biblical Translations

[jimrich]

Hello:
I am placing this thread here because I am AFRAID to put it in the Christian Forum.
I am not a Christian but respect and enjoy much of what the Bible is supposed to say. I say "supposed to say" because I have long suspected and even doubted much of what is claimed to be inside of the Bible due to possible translation problems and mischief. It often amazes me how many folks mindlessly accept whatever is inside of the Bible or what so-called authorities say is in there with no questions about the validity of it.
So, today, I decided to go at it and see what others have to say about Biblical translations since i am not scholarly or even patient enough to go translate the original text for my self.
My first discovery was to be told, by one scholar, that the "original" manuscripts NO LONGER EXIST and that the various and inconsistent "copies" of the missing originals are all current scholars have to work with which has raised the question: which "copy" is correct or reliable?
Upon going further into the question of reliable and accurate translations BY OTHERS and not my self, many disturbing uses were raised by various "authorities" as to the accuracy and reliability of these 2nd and 3rd hand copies of the original texts. It got worse and worse as examples of: carelessness, stupidity, ignorance, fraud and DISHONESTY emerges from the studies of these supposed authorities and so I finally gave up reading all the pages in google under the search: Problems with biblical translations.
I guess that, until I have the taining, time and interest to go study and translate the Bible for myself, I will have to be happy with what little of it makes any sense to me or has any practical value like the: "do unto others" teaching or "love god & thy neighbor" and other practical and obviously useful teachings from the Bible (or any other spiritual work such as the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads, etc.).
I sure hope that others, who are unable or unwilling to do their own translations of original biblical texts, will at least follow their own conscience in matters of "scripture" and religious/spiritual actions and beliefs.
I cannot think of a more significant or useful concept than: "Do unto other as you'd have them do unto you". - a nearly non-existent policy in the world today, IMO!
Have any of you done your own biblical translations? If so, does it match any of the current Bibles? If not, are you interested in what the original texts actually say or are you satisfied with 2nd hand and possibly wrong translations by folks you don't even know?

[Khalli]

The one thing in the bible that has bothered me all my life is the 32 verses that talk of fearing the LORD. That just doesn't feel right to me at all, ever. Since I cannot get past that I don't believe any translation is correct.

[Justme1981]

Well, this is a really good question. I remember doing a little bit of online research a while ago to see if the Vatican had any original transcripts of the New Testament. I can't remember what I found but here are some suggestions:

1) The Jewish people call the Old Testament the Tanakh, this includes the Torah which is just the first five books of Moses. (Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, Deuteronomy). They say what Christians read in the Old Testament is a changed and redacted version of their holy book. So, Christians, according to them are not even reading the Old Testament.

2) The Tanakh can be found in the original Hebrew without translation at most religious book stores, including Jewish centered stores. I am not certain what version is being read. I do not suspect it is the original written version but, but, but it may go back for a long time. I think serious Jewish scholars go to Israel and I am pretty certain Jewish Scholars are top notch and have been for many centuries.

3) When it comes to the New Testament the Vatican has copies of the original Vulgate which they never loan out or give to anyone. There is original scholarship before the Vulgate but I am not certain if the Vatican has those copies.

4) The Vatican is the only institution that has any chance of having a genuine New Testament but they do not give them out for scholarship. My suspicion is they are hiding things; nothing conspiracy theory like but the Vatican knows that some or much of what is passed off as the New Testament is probably inaccurate but, but, but beneficial to the Church.

I hope this helps.

[Justme1981]

Another thing, remember, the Vatican never gives out or loans out the Vulgate. So, whatever is online that purports to be the Vulgate is not true. That is the danger of doing any online scholarship, there is a lot of noise out there.

I'm pretty certain the Vatican has the oldest copy of the New Testament, going back to even before the Vulgate but, but, but they never loan it out or give it to anyone for scholarship. So, anything online that purports to be the original is false.

And, remember, the Old Testament is the Tanakh and not the Torah, which is just the first five books. But, but, but unlike Evangelicals, which tend to be poorly educated, Jewish scholarship goes back to before the time of Christ. So, if you want to understand the real Old Testament the best way to do that is to go to Jewish Scholars. My sense is the Jewish people have a very good handle on original copies; part of their scholarship in the past was repeatedly to write out the Original Tanakh over centuries to preserve. In a sense, the Jewish people foreso this issue long ago.

I'm going to write something about myself which is a little provocative but I just feel I have to voice it. I may still be part of the Judeo-Christian framework were it not for American Evangelicals and Fundamentalists; I don't feel it right to be associated with people so poorly educated, ignorant, narrow-minded and just plain lost. They are not practicing Christianity, they are practicing Rural Southerner Whiteness, as you pointed out none of their beliefs are founded on anything based remotely on the original Bible.

What I am pointing out, is the situation is not so dire. The Jewish people have had a handle on the Old Testament for centuries. The Catholics have the original transcripts of the New Testament. Whatever King James did was absurd and Christians love it because it was a white man who did it, unlike all the Semitic people who created it in the first place.

[Baile]

There is a very good, very conscious translation online, bible.com. But it doesn't highlight or shed new light the metaphysical content, which would be the only reason I'd be interested in it.

Genesis of the Old Testament is highly codified. Outwardly it reads like just a story Moses was peddling the simple people of his times who wanted answers: frighten 'em and they'll obey, he thought - and it worked; but it contains much occult information that pertains to Jewish mysticism most of which was handed down by word of mouth until about the 12th century and the Zohar (which also doubles a nice insomnia treatment!)

Some parts of the OT have lost a lot through translation.
The Song of Songs? How come that's in the Bible? I can't read Hebrew - I don't even know if that Book was written in Hebrew, but the Latin Vulgate tells a story different from my KJV. I'm useless at Latin so I had to plod through that at a very pedestrian rate.

There's also the matter of the prophecies, some of which seem to be panning out in our physical world now.

The New Testament is a corrupt document. Only four of Jesus' disciples had their gospels published in it - thanks to Constantine who then turned to destroying all evidence of the remaining disciples.

Why?

Thankfully, some scripts from the remaining disciples have been found and paint rather a different picture of Jesus from the Canonical ones. So we can hypothesise on why Constantine didn't want them in. Thus to me, translation matters little as long as it doesn't come with a political agenda - the Book is incomplete. If you stick with just that you'll never get the full story.

But for all that the Bible contains some wonderfully inspiring stuff. The Sermon on the Mount has always seemed to epitomise what so many people here talk of - sharing, peace, the use of prayer, an universal love.

I had to have a laugh at Paul's letter to the Hebrews. Can you imagine it?

...

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Hello:
I am placing this thread here because I am AFRAID to put it in the Christian Forum.
I am not a Christian but respect and enjoy much of what the Bible is supposed to say. I say "supposed to say" because I have long suspected and even doubted much of what is claimed to be inside of the Bible due to possible translation problems and mischief. It often amazes me how many folks mindlessly accept whatever is inside of the Bible or what so-called authorities say is in there with no questions about the validity of it.
So, today, I decided to go at it and see what others have to say about Biblical translations since i am not scholarly or even patient enough to go translate the original text for my self.
My first discovery was to be told, by one scholar, that the "original" manuscripts NO LONGER EXIST and that the various and inconsistent "copies" of the missing originals are all current scholars have to work with which has raised the question: which "copy" is correct or reliable?
Upon going further into the question of reliable and accurate translations BY OTHERS and not my self, many disturbing uses were raised by various "authorities" as to the accuracy and reliability of these 2nd and 3rd hand copies of the original texts. It got worse and worse as examples of: carelessness, stupidity, ignorance, fraud and DISHONESTY emerges from the studies of these supposed authorities and so I finally gave up reading all the pages in google under the search: Problems with biblical translations.
I guess that, until I have the taining, time and interest to go study and translate the Bible for myself, I will have to be happy with what little of it makes any sense to me or has any practical value like the: "do unto others" teaching or "love god & thy neighbor" and other practical and obviously useful teachings from the Bible (or any other spiritual work such as the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads, etc.).
I sure hope that others, who are unable or unwilling to do their own translations of original biblical texts, will at least follow their own conscience in matters of "scripture" and religious/spiritual actions and beliefs.
I cannot think of a more significant or useful concept than: "Do unto other as you'd have them do unto you". - a nearly non-existent policy in the world today, IMO!
Have any of you done your own biblical translations? If so, does it match any of the current Bibles? If not, are you interested in what the original texts actually say or are you satisfied with 2nd hand and possibly wrong translations by folks you don't even know?

Its funny most often the point in me combined with the stream of meaning as one, can be interesting to say the least. Knowledge leading you where? To know and understand what? To be more how? To feel what? To relate why?

I have a born again Christian friend who studies the bible and she relates her own meaning which of course has a core of conditioned belief in that translation Over many years I am noticing she is making all kinds of new revelations of the bibles meaning, that seem to now fit my view, but without conditioned beliefs, or fears. Its been a long time coming because to begin with, her translations were not open deeper enough to go beyond others or fear. I sensed fears in her translations, which didn't make sense to me because truth in me was speaking my translations and meaning without fear. Just a deeper knowing that was open minded and allowing the truth to arise naturally from within myself. So we would meet and be aware of most in sameness, but once her fear arose or her conditioned response, that point created its own translation so then I knew she was not translating as an open symbol of greater truth, but more her own personal truth.

Where their is fear, their is self creating the ideas through fears. Where there is open listening without fear, their is self listening to what the translation can be as a whole host of translation, which really matters only to know what you are and are not being, becoming and no longer need to be in all that. Because you are being all that to be you creating and your seeing and knowing others being themselves in this way too.

[firstandlast]

Besides bible translations themselves, I find the etymology of words to be much more interesting in painting a picture, especially the change of meaning over time-- And I am not talking about biblical etymologists who research their own interpretation along side the bible, but just the general change of meanings over time-- Just look up some of the words you think you already know, instead of heading to the dictionary, head over to the etymology and see that the definition of the word you know might be different then its root intentions--

"We must also recognize that today’s dictionaries and accepted translations of Greek words, and even thesauruses, also reflect the impostor Judaeo-Christian worldview, which is a product of that same council. As history shows, if the meanings of words (such as the word Christ) are changed a people can be conquered, enslaved." -- William Henry

[Amilius777]

The Bible was always a highly metaphysical Book with arcane mysteries of the Soul and the Soul's evolution coming from God, descent in matter, evolution, and returned to God in the form of individuals the nation of Israel.

Like did God tell Moses to destroy villages of men, women, and children? Or was it a story of self-dedication towards purification. The context says that those Villages and tribes worshipped Moloch with child sacrifice. Moses ordered the death and destruction of all these people and their livestock.

In those days that was a form of purification to cleanse the land of negative-imprints and vortexes and portals. They also didn't take the physical body as precious as later Christianity took it. Reincarnation was widely accepted.

But that was the Consciousness of that time. Man's consciousness has always been expanding. How else does the same book have someone like Moses who is a "savior" and later someone like Jesus who is also a "savior"? Obviously mankind's divine consciousness is always expanding and evolving. If you start with Love or Kindness, loving people will always choose more love and evolve.

[Busby]

The one thing we can be sure of is that if God him/her/its-self really wanted us to know of him/her/it (as we somehow imagine he/she/it should be) then the Bible would be telling us exactly the same today as it once presumably did. And it would be clear, concise and precise so that everyone would be able to understand it without question. Just like the Highway Code in fact.
I've said it my whole adult life and I'll continue to say it; the Bible is a confusing, sometimes utterly evil, uncaring, unloving collection of fabricated imaginings of misled people.
In many ways it is that which was never said in this book that would be the most important information the world needs/needed to get off its backside.
To think that theology, something quite unfounded is taught at our universities - we deserve what we get.