merging christianity with reincarnation

[athribiristan]

Originally Posted by nalan

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I respectfully disagree. All things, living or not, are made of atoms, energy. Even thoughts/brain activity can be recognized as energy in brain scans.

When we realize how similar the metaphysical is with the physical, then, THEN, amazing "things" will happen that we once thought were out of our physical and mental abilities.

Word.

This really is the big one. Its all just vibrations interacting. Once you know this, it all changes.

the greatest saints pick and choose (and often are killed for it). Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Shirdi Sai Baba, the first Sikhs etc.
for reincarnation and catholicism you might like to learn about Bede Griffiths. please forgive this suggestion though if you know about him allready.
your servant
Mata Das
p.s. a side note on reincarnation...many hindus and buddhists feel that a persons bad luck is due to past karma. so if a child is horrobly abused then it is the child's fault from something they did in past life. for myself, i had to re-evaluate my views regarding karma.

Originally Posted by Mata Das

the greatest saints pick and choose (and often are killed for it). Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Shirdi Sai Baba, the first Sikhs etc.
for reincarnation and catholicism you might like to learn about Bede Griffiths. please forgive this suggestion though if you know about him allready.
your servant
Mata Das
p.s. a side note on reincarnation...many hindus and buddhists feel that a persons bad luck is due to past karma. so if a child is horrobly abused then it is the child's fault from something they did in past life. for myself, i had to re-evaluate my views regarding karma.

I ought to know. I have nearly lost my mind several times trying to take control of my fate. People just don't seem to appreciate my juggling acts.

This is my first post here! This thread actually made me sign up because I've been spiritually conflicted with this near same issue. I'm a Christian, but I've been taking a class on south Asian art and religion, Hindu and Buddhism, are incredibly important in them.

Now why did this spiritually conflict me? Because i find God through art (mostly music). The human tendency to create objects that represent the world around us seems to me to mimic how God made us in his imagine.

Now my confliction is that mainstream Christianity seems to ignore 2/3 of the population of the earth not being Christian. Many of the people have also searched for the divine with their entire lives, and in mainstream Christianity, they are doomed to hell because they didn't come up with the "right" answer.

I'm still trying to resolve merging Christianity with other beliefs, and my resolution has so far been that these are not other beliefs, just different perspectives. Just like each individual has his own perspective on the world around him, these "beliefs" are different perspectives on God (or alternatively the Divine). I haven't meditated on this idea enough yet, but i believe it has merit. I'll post more once i've done so.

And on physics vs. metaphysics, i agree with Nalan They're the same thing. Physics is the laws of God in the universe. It severely annoys me when people justify their disbelief in God because of science, because science is just man discovering Gods creation. And like science, in our pursuit to understand and know God, we come up with theories, and every once in a while we discover we we're wrong...sorta. We discover something and correct it, and we become less wrong, not more right. Once it was science that the earth was the center of the universe. It wasn't "wrong" to think that, because without telescopes we could not see parallax, and thus the celestial sphere clearly revolved around the earth. Then we thought the universe was just our galaxy, but through more information, we've discovered other galaxies. We constantly learn that our universe is so much more magnificent than our earlier theories stated. I think this is highly reflective of each of our spiritual journeys within ourselves. We come to conclusions, then we discover more and have to re-evaluate ourselves. It isn't that we were wrong beforehand, because we're always wrong, but we continuously become less wrong. If we ever become "right" then our spiritual journey is over.
I think this is what Jesus meant when he said
Luke 11:9 "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
and
Isaiah 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
(i know Isaiah is not New testament, but Jesus consistently refereed to it because it is the word of God.)
P.S. The book of Isaiah is eerily aware of the division of new and old testament. Look at the number of chapters and the number of books in the bible. There is 66 chapters, the first 39 deal with the sinfulness of Judah, and the last 27 deal with the restoration of Israel. There are 39 books in the old testament and 27 in the new testament.

I'm still trying to resolve merging Christianity with other beliefs, and my resolution has so far been that these are not other beliefs, just different perspectives. Just like each individual has his own perspective on the world around him, these "beliefs" are different perspectives on God (or alternatively the Divine). I haven't meditated on this idea enough yet, but i believe it has merit. I'll post more once i've done so.

I agree that it has merit. It's kind of like separating religion from spirituality. Beliefs are/can be perspectives when one is willing to introspect and thoroughly understand the basic premise. It's rather a choice to perceive...is that what you mean? (I'm not explaining myself well!)

I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by nalan

I agree that it has merit. It's kind of like separating religion from spirituality. Beliefs are/can be perspectives when one is willing to introspect and thoroughly understand the basic premise.

As i said before, i haven't had a chance to meditate on the idea well enough yet, but i'll try to explain myself better here (because it might take a week to up to a month for me to find something satisfying to share).

Firstly i don't believe in the separation of religion and spirituality, but i believe religion has been perverted by the collected man. Let me clarify that I'm not trying to correct your opinions on religion vs. spirituality, this is just the perspective I've been exploring recently, so i'm just sharing my thoughts. So religion is suppose to be a reflection upon the collective spirituality of a people, but just like man is flawed, so religion is flawed. Also, just like an individual man, religions can only perceive a singular part of the whole when "viewing" God, just like two individuals can see the same object from two different perspectives. Ultimately, without mutual understanding that we are different beings, arguing about what we "see" is pointless because we refuse to consider the universe from the other's perspective.

Now before i continue with my thoughts, being spiritual is more important than being religious. I don't believe a person can be religious before being spiritual in the first place. Ironically i find that the opposite is the norm that people try to be "religious" rather than spiritual, and such they merely operate within another construct created by man with only minimal interaction with the divine because they don't take the time to perceive within themselves. I don't blame anyone for this though, because we're all somewhat lost, and regardless of what i think from my perspective, i don't truly understand where they are at spiritually. I think for most people it's easier to follow the spiritual path laid down by others in religion than take the time to find their own, which is if that is what they want then I should be happy that they are being fulfilled spiritually. For myself though I've tried being Religious (southern baptist Christian) for a while and i thought i was walking down a good path, but then something happened and i had to re-evaluate a lot (and i believe God made this happen to me so that i may grow even more).

Originally Posted by nalan

It's rather a choice to perceive...is that what you mean? (I'm not explaining myself well!)

I hope i haven't been long winded so far. I don't believe perceiving is a choice, but it is a choice how we perceive, if that makes sense. Like listening to music, you can be content with a pop music or smooth jazz. You can listen to it in the background and tuning in every once in a while doing your normal stuff. But for some (like me) that is not satisfying, and in order to feel fulfilled, we listen more intently. We are annoyed with music created as a product to be sold, and instead we find our own taste in music. We're satisfied by hearing someone truly try to express themselves and their emotions and thoughts in unique ways that makes them an individual. I myself like to get an album by a band that interests me and give at least one listen through at a time i devote to just that. Put some headphones in, and close my eyes and listen. I believe this reflections are spiritual journeys and our own time to meditate and pray. We can let the divine just hum in the background, or we can take time to listen.

Just like Jesus said, refering to Isaiah
"You have eyes--can't you see? You have ears--can't you hear?' Don't you remember anything at all?" Mark 8:18
and in Isaiah
"You have seen many things, but have paid no attention; your ears are open, but you hear nothing." Isaiah 42:20

I hope this answered your question.
I feel like i've failed to contribute to the thread on reincarnation and Christianity, but i feel like part of the problem is religious beliefs and their relations to each other.

On reincarnation and Christianity, maybe Christianity wants you to focus on the life you have now, instead of living in past lives. I need to meditate on it, because i don't have a belief on reincarnation as of yet.

[nephesh]

I think a lot of people typical pick and choose what they want or maybe it should be say they interrupt it differently. There are some Christians who do Reiki, other energy work, mediation. There are some Christians who say this things are tabooed and the work of Satan. There are Christians who believe in past lifes, while others dont. There are some who think we will be in a soul sleep once we physical die, while others feel we go straight to the otherside/heaven(or hell) upon our passing. Some feel Baptism is a requirement for being saved while others though think its a good idea since Christ did it, dont think one not being baptized will send one to hell as long as they have truly accepted Christ as their lord and savior. Most will bring about biblical Scripture that they feel supports their beliefs.

I guess one just has to follow the path they feel is right/pray on it. If they feel at peace in regards to something. I do think reincarnation exists (and feel I have had many past lifes, I've only looked into 4 ) but I also believe Jesus Christ is God's son and belief in his teachings as well. I feel he died for our sins. I also think there is so much more to our world then the bible tells us. I think that might be because God wanted us to figure some things out on our own.