Meditation, some answers

Originally Posted by Native spirit

Everybody's Experiences will be different, and it all depends how long you have been Meditating.
For myself i know i should meditate more.but as i have Fibro and arthritis for me i fall asleep. so i dont do it.
For others their mind is to busy so they cant concentrate,
As i say everyone is different and their progress will reflect that.

Yes, everybody's experiences would be somewhat different but still the underlying causes of those different experiences would be the very same. Differences in the experiences is caused by the differences in the perspectives of the experiencers, not by the experiences per se.

Let us understand it from an analogy. When we think about a person, a layman would say that he/she is so or so. A biologist would say about the same person that he/she is made of limbs, skeleton, muscles, blood and tissues. A physiologist would interpret a person in terms of biochemical functions. But a quantum physicist would claim that he/she is nothing but a clump of subatomic particles like higgs boson. And, frankly speaking, none of those is wrong so all depends on one's perspective and how deep one goes. The same is true about spirituality.

namaste.

There was some talk about miracles like phenomenon in the thread of late. So let us talk about it.

I can say with absolute certainty that there is no such things that we can call miracles. We tend to call such incidents as miracles which we cannot explain. That is all otherwise there are no miracles.

I am well aware that some would have strong objection to that but i would request some patience from those. let me say what i want to say then state your objection. Understanding miracles cannot be done without understanding what happens at root level. And, for that, we have to go back to the thread where we were discussing tenth door and a buffer done kind of realm which is open both for the souls from this world and as well as spiritual entities.

One may rightly ask how i concluded this so in order to enables readers to understand my conclusions, it is necessary to share my experiences which led to my conclusions though as a thumb rule, i avoid mentioning personal experiences unless that is necessary to make others understand my perspective. Secondly, these particular experiences collide with the tenth door too.

If readers remember, i mentioned in the starting of the thread that after i started meditating, there was a period of about three years when i did almost nothing but meditating. I was doing nothing at that time but just handling a few court cases which were initiated by our lenders. For that i have to go the court 4-5 times in a month and that was the only commitment i had at that time. Rest of the whole time i was engaged in meditating except that time in which i have to eat and sleep. Life was very difficult and frustrating but i somehow i learned to use that frustration as a catalyst for meditation. The more i became frustrated, the more effort i put into meditation. This continued for a while. During one of our date in the court, one of our lender manhandled me. He slapped and kicked me in the public. This was/is the only time that i faced such thing in my life. Nevertheless, i came home after attending the date. I should have been disturbed a lot but to my surprise, i felt nothing at all. it was like that all of my emotions were blocked and my mind was totally blank. As i was feeling very tired so i ate dinner and went to sleep. As per by habit i tried to meditate before sleeping but it did not work and i slept.

Nothing special happened in the morning too except my mind was totally blacked out and i was not able to meditate. I ate lunch as usual and as it was the time of summers so i laid down on the bed and started to meditate. At starting it was difficult to meditate but i kept trying. As i were tying, slowly the remembrance of all that happened yesterday started flashing in my mind. As i continued, emotions kept getting stronger and stronger and so the intensity of the meditation too. I cannot put exactly in the words but it was like i was shouting in my mind though the mouth was still closed. This continued for some time. I felt twitching of many muscles in the body and then it converted into slow trembling. The buzzing sound which i used to hear in my mind during meditation started becoming louder and louder as i went on. Many emotions were coming and going in my mind but i kept my focus on meditation Rather i should say that i put the whole of myself into it.
This went on for some time then all of a sudden i felt that something like air was moving upwards from the lower half of my body. It started from the feet, moved through legs and slowly reached to the head going through stomach and chest. When it reached to the head, the buzzing sound became very loud as i was hearing something on the speaker. As that air crossed ears, the buzzing stopped and i felt that something from inside me is coming out from the top of my head. It moved out very slowly like a flowing motion. Then i realized that it was nothing else but me what is coming out from my body. As my head was at the corner of the bed so i moved out then slowly flowed down to the floor. I very clearly felt that i was not having legs in that form because when i tried to come out from my bedroom, i was unable to walk. I instead moved to the floor like serpents move. Somehow i moved out from my bedroom and reached to the drawing room which was next to my bedroom. By that time, i was able to stand but not on my legs but i felt that as i was standing on my tail.

So I came into drawing room. There used to be a brass showpiece which had a long stand and a big hollow vase rested on the top of it. I went near to that and out of curiosity, i tried to touch the vase but my hand went through it. I tried it many times but all in vain. I became angry and tried to hit it with by full force. This time, my hand hit the vase and it fell on the floor making a loud sound. Hearing the sound, i feared that it would awake other family members and that would see my in this condition and as soon as i thought this, i came back tot my body. All that happened within a fraction of a second like lightening speed. After coming back to my body, i went back again to the drawing room to place the vase again on the stand but to my surprise, the vase was already there as it was never moved.

So this was my first OBE or Crossing the tenth door.

Through this incident and many later, i realized that during astral projection we enter into some kind of different plane, which is almost similar to ours though not exactly but present very much here. OBE is not such a big deal because we all experience it though unknowingly. Actually, we cannot dream without astral projection. The only difference between forced one and natural is that unlike dreaming, human mind remains in control in forced one.

To be continued-

with love,
sanjay

[Miss Hepburn]

Now, how did that last post explain that miracles do not happen?
"Then i realized that it was nothing else but me what is coming out from my body." -OK, that's pretty common and fun.

I understand things that seem absolutely miraculous, impossible things can be explained -
for me it's simple...
walking on water, stopping a storm, healing people, water into wine, resurrecting ?
Explanation? Spirit, along with belief, are more powerful than the physical.
Or for atheists, Mind along with knowledge, focused with intent, are stronger than physical laws, even.
Classic 'Mind over Matter'.

When you apply, 'ask, believe, and receive', a basic Christian teaching from Jesus - it does seem miraculous!!
But it really isn't.
A yogi not being bothered by laying on a bed of nails , seems miraculous, too.

Things that seem like miracles are really every day events to someone that knows how this Universe works.
(And that's coming from me, who has had SO many seemingly just impossible,
'miraculous' things happen, leaving my friends in disbelief.)
This is my input.


zinnat - Good, ok! :) Thanks for saying it's ok to go off topic a bit with
people's personal experiences!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Matty

If I may, Let your (our) beauty and light shine and inspire those who seek the light. Jesus taught not to hide the light.

I couldn't hide that light if I tried!! hahahahaha But, talking too much about my personal experiences - I hold back a bit.
I do believe it 'can' give encouragement, yes, to people...but it can also cause despair in others.
I share with those that love the stories...I love reliving these things!!
But, on a public forum with mentally unstable, clinically depressed people possibly reading?
Naw, it's not so wise, imo...and like I said we were taught this (by my ex-guru) for this very reason.
We don't know if this could actually discourage someone.
But, I'm not stopping someone else!!

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 484 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Legrand

This returning of the light, to take the words form the secret of the golden flower, is to me the first and most essential thing to do when one starts meditating. Nothing should count more. It is where ''lives'' the Unborn.

Your post referencing the "Secret of the Golden Flower" (The Classic Chinese Book of Life) brought back fond memories of my first reading of that book starting on March 19, 2009.

While looking at my highlighted passages in that book a few minutes ago, I came across:

"You are then in the heaven of unknowing, and the child develops thus. If you entertain any conceptual view at all, this is already a misleading path."

This is very consistent with the Christian mystical classic, "The Cloud of Unknowing", and also gives a hint regarding my choice of the user-name, Still _Waters.

Incidentally, this does not suggest that one is inactive. The Secret of the Golden Flower directly addresses this subject:

"... it does not consider stillness superior to action; both action and stillness are part of the total enlightenment as long as they proceed from the primal unconditioned source of mind rather than from temporal habit."

That is precisely how I TRY to live this Life as best as possible. I consider meditation to be an integral part of Life that guides one's actions throughout the day ... not just sitting for prescribed periods of time at specific times during the day.

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Golden.../dp/0062501933

P.S. The Thomas Cleary translation of this book is the one that I have.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 487 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Native spirit

Everybody's Experiences will be different, and it all depends how long you have been Meditating.

I agree completely that everybody's experiences, as well as their conditioning, will be different and hence one shoe (for meditation) does not fit all.

Ramana Maharshi explicitly stated that "there can be no mass instruction". My spiritual mentor said essentially the same thing and taught various meditation technique suited to each particular individual. Hence, there are understandably numerous meditation techniques that are suggested depending on the disposition of the individual as well as "how long you have been meditating".

I am somewhat skeptical of teachers who proclaim that their way is "the only way" or "the best way" or "the most direct way".

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 493EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by zinnat

I can say with absolute certainty that there is no such things that we can call miracles. We tend to call such incidents as miracles which we cannot explain. That is all otherwise there are no miracles.

That's a very strong statement to make "with absolute certainty" but my sense is that it is right on target. Having personally met many extraordinary beings throughout the world, including but not limited to masters from the Himalayas at the 1998 Khumba Mela in Haridwar (India), I can't think of anything that is not possible and for which there is not an explanation.

Also, having had an OBE many many years ago during an NDE when I emerged completely symptom-free from a 3-day "irreversible coma", I realized firsthand that there is a vantage point (also reachable in meditation, of course) from which one can see a vast panorama from a totally different all-encompassing perspective. That experience also convinced me that I am not the body ... as the body is projected thought/consciousness ... and that the non-physical essence continues even after physical death.

Your post will be mind-boggling to some and I'm glad that you raised this subject.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 494 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Things that seem like miracles are really every day events to someone that knows how this Universe works.

Exactly !

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I understand things that seem absolutely miraculous, impossible things can be explained -
for me it's simple...
walking on water, stopping a storm, healing people, water into wine, resurrecting ?

What's the point to any of these miracles, though? I get loaves and fishes. He had to feed those people who gathered to listen to the talk in a place where there were no diners or cafes.

[Matty]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Ramana Maharshi explicitly stated that "there can be no mass instruction". My

I am somewhat skeptical of teachers who proclaim that their way is "the only way" or "the best way" or "the most direct way".

Ramana Maharshi, now there is someone I am glad that was brought to me attention. He seems to understand instead of just proclaiming he knows. I'll look Ramana up later

It's wise to skeptical, when it comes to people proclaiming to be Teachers that teach a step by step process. Usually is just mapping out there path and or traits of false Teacher.
Sure one person's finding's along there Path can help some amongst there Path. I'm not refuting that notion. We are all meant to help other's but that doesnt mean everyone is a Teacher nor Guide. Even Bruce Lee understood this...I say "even" in no way a diminishing on his behalf.
But when someone proclaims there Path with uncertainty as the Path. They are replacing themselves as the God-head. Instead of helping one another stand up when they stumble and or fall
This thread's OP can help other's, this post is no way discrediting that. Some people have no clue how to start such a Path, and this Way may help some start or begin to find their Way. As long as they don't consider this to be The Way, of course.
Which bring's back to skeptical part, it seems so many have lost the ability and Gift of Discernment.