GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Yes agree. I think we are conflating a few things here:

1. Words have impact
2. For someone at Disneyland, the map is what it is
3. Those still looking or not at Disneyland often rely on maps. I posted the example of a Christian site's interpretation - obviously the most rudimentary one, but still those that believe that Jesus is saying war is necessary.
This is what I was saying is problematic - add on top that most of Jesus's original teachings were modified and obscured or ignored for political reasons - and we have a belief system that is ripe for tension.

So, can you spell out simply -
What exactly is your beef?
Think of me as a simpleton... that might have missed previous posts of yours.

What is the point you are making, exactly - and, also why here, on BigJohn's Thomas Thread?
You know, you could start a whole thread on a topic of your choice.
So far as a newbie you are presenting as pretty aggressive, or in the least, with strong opinions in threads started by others.
Check out our 'Strong Opinions" area.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Yes agree. I think we are conflating a few things here:

1. Words have impact
2. For someone at Disneyland, the map is what it is
3. Those still looking or not at Disneyland often rely on maps. I posted the example of a Christian site's interpretation - obviously the most rudimentary one, but still those that believe that Jesus is saying war is necessary. This is what I was saying is problematic - add on top that most of Jesus's original teachings were modified and obscured or ignored for political reasons - and we have a belief system that is ripe for tension.

Have you thought of starting your own thread showing us were "most of Jesus's original teachings were modified and obscured or ignored for political reasons"?

I have not seen those documents and I suspect there are a lot of others who would be interested in seeing those documents.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

So, can you spell out simply -
What exactly is your beef?
Think of me as a simpleton... that might have missed previous posts of yours.

What is the point you are making, exactly - and, also why here, on BigJohn's Thomas Thread?
You know, you could start a whole thread on a topic of your choice.
So far as a newbie you are presenting as pretty aggressive, or in the least, with strong opinions in threads started by others.
Check out our 'Strong Opinions" area.

Sorry.........
I posted before reading your post.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

No conflict, I just thought it would have been an interesting discussion between the three of them. One of the things I'm interested in is the 'overlap' of different belief systems, so rather than them throwing stones at each other it would have been interesting to see the space where they 'meet'.

Your point about trying "to see the space where they meet" is EXACTLY where I go. There is indeed common ground and one can discover it through insightful dialogue.

While I have your attention and you do sound knowledgeable, I want to digress a little and ask what is your opinion of the Book of Enoch (Ethiopian canonical scripture). When I joined the Gnosticism class, I was looking forward to the Gospel of Thomas, which is the subject of this thread and also on the ckass agenda, but the initial readings in the class were surprisingly from the Book of Enoch.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sin is another name for issues and fears.

In tantra for instance energy work can speed up the purification process I.e. removing attachments.

Kashmir Shaivism has many practices of sharing ones being to help others progress.

There are plenty of examples of Jesus doing the same.

There are many methodologies for purification and removing attachments as well as inner pressures. Could you elaborate on some of the actual practices.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Have you thought of starting your own thread showing us were "most of Jesus's original teachings were modified and obscured or ignored for political reasons"?

I have not seen those documents and I suspect there are a lot of others who would be interested in seeing those documents.

That would indeed be a very interesting thread.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

That would indeed be a very interesting thread.

Re - Big John's question.
Here are some things of interest:
In 1604, England's King James I authorized a new translation of the Bible aimed at settling some thorny religious
differences in his kingdom—and solidifying his own power. But in seeking to prove his own supremacy, King James ended up democratizing the Bible instead.

"The NIV and ESV has also now removed 45 complete verses - found in the KJV."

Martin Luther in the 1500s removed 7 books from the Bible.

What verses have been removed from the Bible?
Some of the16 omitted verses

• (1) Matthew 17:21.
• (2) Matthew 18:11.
• (3) Matthew 23:14.
• (4) Mark 7:16.
• (5 & 6) Mark 9:44 & 9:46.
• (7) Mark 11:26.
• (8) Mark 15:28.
• (9) Luke 17:36.

http://www.anointedlinks.com/niv_omissions.html
This is why I don't have an NIV in my house.
I never knew this before I was clued in!

Most accurate translations -I have all but, NET. ;)
NASB
ESV
NET
KJV
NKJV


Another good link:
https://faithfoundedonfact.com/the-5...-translations/

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

There are many methodologies for purification and removing attachments as well as inner pressures. Could you elaborate on some of the actual practices.

Kashmir Shaivism talks a lot about it. From a general overview to more direct practices.

Kashmir Shaivism - The Nine Types Of Grace Of Siva
Understand that there is no difference between Lord Siva and a realized being.

Rare is the Guru

As in the vicinity of fire the butter gets
melted, so in the proximity of the holy Guru all
sin dissolves

As lighted fire burns up all fuel - dry and
moist - so the glance of the Guru burns up in a
moment the sin of the disciple.

As a heap of cotton blown up by a great
storm scatters in all the ten directions, so the
heap of sins is driven away by the compassion
of the Guru

Group Energy Practice - The Dive - A Historical Teaching

In a revealing passage Abhinavagupta says:

Consciousness, which is composed of all things, enters into a state of contraction
due to the differences generated by separate bodies, but it returns to a state of
oneness, to a state of expansion, when all of its components are able to reflect
back on each other. The totality of our own rays of consciousness are reflected
back one on the other when, overflowing in the individual consciousness of all
present as if in so many mirrors, and without any effort whatsoever in an intense
fashion, it becomes universal.

The Doctrine of Vibration - Direct Introduction

The Master is the ferry that transports the
disciple over the ocean of thought if, that is, the disciple is ready. The
disciple must be 'awake' (prabuddha), attending carefully to the pulse of
consciousness. This alert state of wakefulness is at once the keen sensitivity
of insight as well as the receptivity of one who has no other goal to pursue
except enlightenment.
....

When such a disciple sits before his Master, all he has to do is to gaze
at him and be aware of his elevated state to feel the fragrance (vdsand) of
the Master's transcendental consciousness extending spontaneously
within him. Abhinava explains:
So gracious is he that, by transferring his own nature to those whose
consciousness is pure, they became one with him at his [mere] sight.

The above are just some examples of much more advanced means of helping someone.

More common energy practices would be something like a pranayama practice in Hinduism or tummo in Buddhism. Vase breathing is a pranayama/energy practice for instance. Probably the most well known is Nadi Shidoni for example.

[BigJohn]

The NIV removed or corrected numerous scriptures because older manuscripts do not support those scriptures. Mark 16:18 is a scripture of questionable authority especially the part about drinking poison.

What Pixiedust was talking about is scriptures that were removed before the Bible was canonized. As far as I am concerned, there is very little if any information regarding that.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

...
Another good link:
https://faithfoundedonfact.com/the-5...-translations/

Thank you! Very good link indeed!