Musings on non-duality

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

To be honest, I did not feel any love at level of Self, pure awareness, yes, peace yes, that’s it. Love possibly needs someone to love,

In love most of the times there has to be some other one . But there can be Self love too.We love ourselves when we see in the mirror . Even the most ugliest person when he/she stands in front of mirrors - feels he/she is standing in front of the best creation in the world .

So in awake state Self in 1 manifestation can love the Self in other manifestation . Does that sound familiar or you find my observation is not relevant.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Hitesh Shah ~ see, here now, we can say we are growing in love, even getting to all encompassing compassion, rising above selective empathy. However, at level of Self in singularity, all that is, is pure awareness, in as I experienced it, as already elaborated in the opening post.

Will be happy to hear from others on this.

[FallingLeaves]

the experience you had, to me, is just another place. It is like, some people go high on a mountain and just love the experience? But others don't get that, they are stuck in the plains with the masses of humanity.

But still, it is just another place; the only thing that makes it different is if I've chosen to revere one place more than I revere another. For whatever reason.

In these kinds of places we often get a feeling that we are allowed to act in one way vs another... which the desire to choose a 'place' we are allowed to act the way we most desire is often the impetuous for liking one over the other. But still, it is just each of us being arbitrary when we say we want to be in one place more than another. The reality, in the real world, for most of us, is we get to be in different places at different times; some we like more than others but that doesn't keep us from going to more than one place.

In my own experience, my journey this lifetime, I am finding great solace in accepting the 'place' I am already in rather than trying to get to all the other nice places people tell me I should go to. It is kind of a relief not deciding I have to run hither and yon just to make others happy with me...

I think as far as the 'descent' it isn't like there is nothing there, and it isn't like you even HAVE to do the duality thing while you are there. But must people seem to want to ascend into the heights, and most people also seem to want to not deal with things like the details of what happens within the physical reality as much as they want to do other things. It seems more of 'oh well I guess I have to...'.... so it doesn't cross anyone's mind there could be more there than it seems.

Love being a part of that I guess. As much as the heights are lauded, we are cautioned in the bible that there is much evil going on there.

And anyway personally I find it can be easier to move about, when one isn't attempting to move fast...

Anyway and all that said we also have from god various statements about how what the wise call wisdom is foolishness, and how he has blinded people to the 'truth', and he made lowly things a kind of thorn in the side to perplex the high and mighty.

So it is my own opinion, that 'descent' is more of the same... it is something we need to do for various reasons that I may not completely understand. Which leads to all sorts of things the wise would call just stupid, such as the idea that if you are forced into a position of descent you are actually 'lucky'... but you've brought for example a great deal of misfortune to yourself if you happen to be in a position to be forcing others into the position of descent because you yourself want to rise... while at the same time you are a great blessing to those who have been made to go down.

And everyone believes exactly the opposite is true... and acts accordingly to get whatever it is they think they should have.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ FallingLeaves ~ opinions don’t matter, what is an opinion but a thought, a concept? There’s a beauty about a becoming, a shift, a transformation, a knowing in definitiveness.

It’s not about seeking but unseeking, a dropping away, that reveals the truth. The truth of our true being. Now, if we don’t know, we still are that, if we know it, anyway we are that, the only difference is between being asleep vs awake.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ JustBe ~ the question is, if we feel no lack whilst as Self in singularity, other than to learn something that is offered in duality, why would we go through the trouble?
About children, who can say what they feel? But reflect, a baby’s fontanel is physically open. Is that a coincidence?

What do you mean by trouble? Are you saying in our wholeness, that it seems counter productive to go through this human experience, when we already know we don’t need to struggle to source what already is?

Perhaps the question from what you’re sharing is how does one wake up from the deep sleep state without duality taking over?

The body as I see this is, is either the vehicle that controls the process or the vehicle that takes a back seat to allow the process to unfold most naturally. Our reactions through the body determine how much of that deeper state arises or not.

For me the sensory nature of my body, is only affected by the wounded self, so when my wounds are no longer streaming through all of my body as messages of harm, there is no reactions. Remembering also we are a product of the whole, so most of our processors when undoing, is undoing the whole in us..

As for feeling in children, we can read them or know more directly depending upon one’s capabilities and understanding of their own feeling body. As for the fontanel what are you relating this to beyond its physical design and purpose in the birthing process?

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ JustBe

Are you saying in our wholeness, that it seems counter productive to go through this human experience, when we already know we don’t need to struggle to source what already is?

Yes. The part of your statement underlined above is a recognised state. Until then, as long as we are identified with body-mind, suffering is inevitable. As such, what I’m looking for, on which I seek insight, is the trigger of choiceless choice, perhaps in playfulness maybe (?) that causes us as Self, in a state of completetion, to enter into a bubble of ignorance to feel contrast.

[FallingLeaves]

so there was a star trek episode once, where the protaganist suddenly decided he was in some unreal reality. In that moment he broke out of it, and into a new reality. He accepted it for a while, then again, he was unsatisfied with the reality of his reality and didn't accept it, and broke out into something else.

After a few rounds of that he found the one true reality and rested in that.

Meanwhile I was rolling my eyes, as I already knew even then that in this reality the only way to end this kind of sequence is to arbitrarily decide I am at the end... at least for me, I can never actually get to the end. There is always some level of me being fooled... until I want to arbitrarily decide I am not being fooled just to make myself feel right.

The only difference at that time, is that I no longer want to acknowledge what is happening to me; fantasy grows stronger than my desire for actual truth and all I can do is say I know the truth without really understanding that I don't really know the truth.

But I think with all my heart that I do understand the truth, do know the truth.

At least that makes me feel better when it happens!

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

. As such, what I’m looking for, on which I seek insight, is the trigger of choiceless choice, perhaps in playfulness maybe (?) that causes us as Self, in a state of completetion, to enter into a bubble of ignorance to feel contrast.

Ok I’m once more struggling to understand this part
Can you articulate this differently?

(A lot of spiritual people will say, we have to suffer in order to know and realise we don’t have too.
To feel the contrast gives us choice to feel differently. To know more.)

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ JustBe ~ alright, let me attempt what I wish to convey again:

We are here, in duality. Recognising we are more than decaying organic form, we slow down thoughts in meditation, chanting, prayer or whatever, entering silence. Bereft of thought, ego recedes.

Initially, we dip into subtle vibrations, sights, sounds, kundalini energisation, void experience and the like. All useful but we remain in a subject-object differentiated perception.

Samadhi, if offered, reveals singularity in the true sense but without freedom, in as we cannot enter or exit that state by choice.

Alright. Now, if it so happens, we may see ego drop off altogether. There then is no identity. This occurrence or shift is clear, not visualised. All visualisation is ego.

Ok. Ego goes. What remains? We are as awareness self-aware, as one without a second, alive in the self-renewing light of Self, in a singularity, at peace, feeling complete and without attribute. Here we have freedom but yet no will as in intent, since there remains no urge or seeking.

The question is: why would we as Self, enter duality when we need not? What is the trigger of the cause, even if choiceless? After all, we arrive here, memory erased and are then ego driven, floundering about until one day we recognise who we are, which takes us back to the starting point.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ JustBe ~ alright, let me attempt what I wish to convey again: identity. This occurrence or shift is clear, not visualised. All visualisation is ego.

The question is: why would we as Self, enter duality when we need not? What is the trigger of the cause, even if choiceless? After all, we arrive here, memory erased and are then ego driven, floundering about until one day we recognise who we are, which takes us back to the starting point.

It seems my interpretation of all this, is that you’re answering your own questioning. That last paragraph sums it all up. We are in a constant state of remembering and forgetting through the cycles of birth and death. The many lives past, as they were influencing the whole creation. The trigger or cause is because our memory is erased, but also we perhaps haven’t ‘completed’ in previous lives. So duality activates our memory to overcome trauma and pain to see beyond it.

Is there a possibility that those who are realising (including myself) their true state or wholeness, in this body, in this life, may go onto ‘not forgetting’ next incarnation. Perhaps this is my first time in life remembering what I am. So even as I’m only suggesting without full knowledge, it seems it could be a possibility.

In which case, the whole is deciding and creating a world as the future, based upon people incarnating aware and complete in themselves perhaps? this is more about survival of our species, without inner and outer war as part of the future world? Continuation of our life form but with upgrades you might say..?


As for samadhi what is the purpose to remain in it? How does it support life itself?

How does that benefit the whole?