Trouble with silencing my mind while meditating...

[shiningstars]

I like long winded, I enjoy reading your perspectives.

I have been in places where we sat for hours a day and I felt very refreshed, but in daily life, yes moderation, depending on one's spiritual practice. I have more questions but for another day perchance.

Thank you again, James/bartholomew.

shiningstars

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Of course we may speak of and discuss these topics without entering a meditative state but often we do. I often do. It feels like shifting gears in a car. Have you had this experience? Speaking normally one moment and then some sort of a connection is made, a feeling of enablement comes upon us and information begins to flow seemingly all by itself? So we can speak normally about chakras or channeling. We can purposefully enter a meditative state and channel information about chakras or channeling or we may mix the two together, a little of each. It is helpful to remember here that the practiced person may enter a deep meditation by taking only one breath. The change can happen in an instant. Most of us have to practice for a couple of years first... but we all have it in us. There is nothing really foreign or exotic about it.

Preachers often begin speaking and then shift up to meditation. Later they will say the "spirit of the Lord" was with me. I have heard them speaking really fact trying to keep up with the flow coming at them. Just another facet of being human.

May we recap the basics? We are familiar with the physical plane which is of three parts generally. Solids, liquids and gases. The physical plane is "informed"by the ethereal plane. This is the subtle copy of the physical. It is made of etheric matter. We can often see and feel this because it is so very close to the physical in vibratory quality. Next up is the astral emotional. It is made of astral emotional matter. This is a very necessary component of the Earth scheme because it gives life to the vegetable, animal and human kingdoms. We all have ready access to this plane of energies. We very easily create throughtforms on this plane. Next up is the mental plane. It is comprised of mental matter. Animals and humans have access but in varying degrees. When we think in everyday terms we are operating in the lower of the mental subplanes. When we use our abstract minds we are at the high end. We are capable of making thoughtforms in the mental plane which will be reflected in the astral too. We humans have the beginnings of access to planes which are higher. One of these is commonly called the divine. Many humans have working access here but most of us are only beginning to function on it. Higher than the divine is the atmic. Here, likewise, a few humans, masters, have working access.

We may be in sync with our souls on either the ethereal, the astral or the mental and in various of the subplanes of each. When we pray fervently in an emotional way we are building an astral plane copy of that prayer and sending it to God (or to whoever we prayed to). We can do this also on the mental. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Those who claim to be in sync with their souls really are but not necessarily on the high end of the mental. If we contact our soul on the astral we encounter mostly just a pre recorded message or idea from our soul. Perhaps an answer to a prayer which has been left there for us. But.... if we contact our souls on the high mental plane we now are able to have a present tense meeting. In channeling this means questions can be asked and answers will be given. This is a very inadequate answer. There is so much more to it.

Visualize all of these planes as being concentric circles to the Earth and it begins to make ready sense. For instance we all know about the solid Earth and water and the layered atmosphere above. The subtle planes all begin at the center of the Earth but each is of greater size. We therefore find, after some study, that the lower part of the mental plane is about 22,000 miles from the surface of the Earth. You see? We have everything we need right here in our celestial neighborhood. Herein is a hint about the workings of astrology too.

Our souls are made of and live in the higher subplanes of the mental plane. If we want to merge our brain consciousnesses with them we have to go to where they are. This explains the need for a certain meditative practice over another.

Note: Our guides commonly communicate with us through the astral plane. They do this because they know we are capable of finding their messages which have tangible forms. They create a "form" of astral matter and leave it where we will find it even if we are in an emotional state. Have you seen this happen? We also create on the astral. Every time we get mad and yell in frustration we are making astral plane copies of the experience. They will stay there forever until either a knowing soul or the astral plane housekeeping staff cleans them up. Here is refer to the many little worker spirits that exist.

Creation is what we are about. We create in the physical as everyone knows. We gain access to the various subtle planes and work on them knowlingly or unknowlingly. At a certain point we become adept enough to create on a plane. A master soul has a greater ability. He or she can create on higher planes than we can. This is something which is part and parcel of spiritual growth. It is not the reason for growth but it is a secondary result.

The next part is personal. The physical James has long been on the mental plane in most matters. At the high end of this plane our souls normally operate. As we age we trend closer to our souls. We come to know them as very personal beings. When we are thus trained we find that entering the meditative or channeling state is much easier because we have come to so much closer to it in our everyday waking awareness. It is not difficult in a technical sense. When speaking of these things there is no way to avoid mentioning a definite truth. As we live lifetimes after long lifetimes we grow spiritually. That is our souls grow spiritually as a result of the physical lives. After a certain point in evolution the physical body and personality become aware of the soul. Now there is a waking union between the two. These people can enter a fully conscious state of communion with their souls in just an instant of time. This is not something which can be provoked by artificial means. Most people contact their souls through the astral plane only. There is nothing wrong with this. In matters of spiritually there are no rights and wrongs. We all do what we can do according to our abilities which are measures of the growth of our souls. I had to say this to be clear in my response. We may ask "how do we know if we are speaking with our souls on the mental or on the astral"? It is OK to be careful and cautious with this. One very good way to determine this is by examining our auras. In the ethereal version of our bodies the tale is told. It is there for any and all with vision to see. This is the surest dependable method that I can mention here.

Caution: Either channeling or meditating for more than about one hour will result in headaches the next day because of a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain which is in the sleep mode while the body is awake. Aviators call this high altitude sickness. People who drink too much call it a hangover. We can have the same complaint. One time I channeled for four hours straight. The next day I had terrible headaches. Be careful with any kind of spiritual practice. Moderate it. Live in the real world too. Laugh and love and be normal.

Once again I got long winded.

Thanks again.
This is very interesting and I will return to this thread in about 12 hours

[sky]

Why is ' we ' always used, that suggests that everyone is included which is not true.
Regarding Meditation...... Buddhist meditate for hours on end and never complain of headaches, sometimes it would be better to use ' some ' rather than ' we '

Originally Posted by sky123

Why is ' we ' always used, that suggests that everyone is included which is not true.
Regarding Meditation...... Buddhist meditate for hours on end and never complain of headaches, sometimes it would be better to use ' some ' rather than ' we '

When I post under my real name, James, I am that individual. But very often while writing a post or a response to a post I change up and begin channeling my guide, Bartholomew. Souls exists on their own plane in groups of individual souls. When I am in contact with Bartholomew I am in contact with other souls too, in his group. So.... I use the pronoun "we" for this reason. When in this state what I write on the forum comes from many individual souls. Thus I say "we". It refers to a group of souls with which I am temporarily in contact, not a group of humans in physical form here on Earth.

My comments about headaches were pertaining to long periods of channeling, not meditation.

Thanks for the response...

[sky]

Quote Bart: " Caution: Either channeling or meditating for more than about one hour will result in headaches the next day because of a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain which is in the sleep mode while the body is awake."

Not true regarding meditation.... Meditation is not putting the body in sleep mode. I know Buddhist Monks/Nuns who meditate for hours and never complain of headaches. Looks like Bart: doesn't know many Buddhist, lol.

I have no knowledge of channeling, never heard of it before so I can't comment on it.

Originally Posted by sky123

Quote Bart: " Caution: Either channeling or meditating for more than about one hour will result in headaches the next day because of a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain which is in the sleep mode while the body is awake."

Not true regarding meditation.... Meditation is not putting the body in sleep mode. I know Buddhist Monks/Nuns who meditate for hours and never complain of headaches. Looks like Bart: doesn't know many Buddhist, lol.

I have no knowledge of channeling, never heard of it before so I can't comment on it.

There are as many variations in meditation as there are people who meditate. To an observer a person in deep meditation will appear as though asleep. Because of this i often say, for convenience, that mediation is similar or like to being asleep. In my quote above I cite the difference between brain activity in both meditations and sleeping. There are shifts in consciousness. In sleep the brain is less conscious than awake. In meditation the brain is more conscious than when awake. I say more because the center of awareness has left the personality and body and gone off to higher realms. Note: science does not agree with this. In science the base line for conscious awareness is the normal waking state and anything other than that is simply called "sub conscious".

Hooked up to a machine the brain waves of both the sleeper and meditator will appear very similar. This is the similarity that I cite. It will be for science to sort out a new reality but first they have to begin to understand and recognize the reality of the spiritual universes which exist. Until they do conversations like this one will continue.

You are correct. Meditation is not sleeping. I merely point out the similarities between the two. And, again, it is with channeling for long periods that a danger of headaches arises, not with meditating. This is why your Buddhist friends do not get headaches. They don't channel. They meditate.

There are many good sources of information regarding spiritual channel. Like meditation it is a wide area of interest wherein practices vary greatly. There is no simple one liner which suffices to describe it.

We have had many lifetimes in the Buddhist traditions.

You do not understand what meditation really is brother. You merely repeat what you have read, written by others and then fret over words. A greater understanding will come to you through age and experience. Then you will not have to ask as you do now.


Thanks again...

[sky]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

There are as many variations in meditation as there are people who meditate. To an observer a person in deep meditation will appear as though asleep. Because of this i often say, for convenience, that mediation is similar or like to being asleep. In my quote above I cite the difference between brain activity in both meditations and sleeping. There are shifts in consciousness. In sleep the brain is less conscious than awake. In meditation the brain is more conscious than when awake. I say more because the center of awareness has left the personality and body and gone off to higher realms. Note: science does not agree with this. In science the base line for conscious awareness is the normal waking state and anything other than that is simply called "sub conscious".

Hooked up to an EKG machine the brain waves of both the sleeper and meditator will appear very similar. This is the similarity that I cite. It will be for science to sort out a new reality but first they have to begin to understand and recognize the reality of the spiritual universes which exist. Until they do conversations like this one will continue.

You are correct. Meditation is not sleeping. I merely point out the similarities between the two.

We have had many lifetimes in the Buddhist traditions.a

You do not understand what meditation really is brother. You merely repeat what you have read, written by others and then fret over words. A greater understanding will come to you through age and experience. Then you will not have to ask as you do now.


Thanks again...

I know what Meditation is, I have been doing it for many many years and never read a book about it either. I wasn't asking but pointing out that it does not cause headaches for everyone and the body is not in sleep mode as your Bart: said.

HHDL works very closely with Scientist/Neurologists in the Mind and Life Institution, many Buddhists brains have been scanned during meditation and ' sleep mode ' plays no part at all.

Originally Posted by sky123

I know what Meditation is, I have been doing it for many many years and never read a book about it either. I wasn't asking but pointing out that it does not cause headaches for everyone and the body is not in sleep mode as your Bart: said.

HHDL works very closely with Scientist/Neurologists in the Mind and Life Institution, many Buddhists brains have been scanned during meditation and ' sleep mode ' plays no part at all.

Again, you are correct in saying that meditation does not cause headaches. It is channeling for too long a period of time which can and sometimes does.

Meditation and sleep are not the same thing. They merely have similarities. You have said that people in meditation have been monitored for brain activity. Which type of meditation was tested? There are many. The Buddhist, which I take you to mean, is not the only one nor is it the most definitive.

Regarding the other I though as much but wanted to provoke a revealing response from you. The best way to proceed in a case like this one is not by arguing over mere words as we might in a debate forum, which this is not, but by openly discussing various things, in an atmosphere free of verbal challenge.

If you occasionally find a word which displeases you then ignore it. Language, after all, is imperfect and human beings, in spirit or in flesh are also. Channeling is an imperfect activity because it relies on the sometimes channel who is a imperfect person in flesh. Remember this. When we leave this place we will do so in relative perfection. Until then we remain, trying the best we can.

Spiritual Forum is NOT a forum of debate but one wherein a free exchange of ideas and experiences may find expression. There is a sticky regarding this statement.


Thanks again for being honest and open with your replies.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by urbanzennist

Let go of having a destination while meditating, accept the noise without being swept away by it. For me, once I stopped grappling with my mind, it eventually silenced itself.

I agree totally; this has been my experience too. An idea which works for me is to imagine (as I listen to my breathe perhaps) looking down on myself. And I believe my higher self would just observe, send me love, peace . . and if I find my mind 'talking' I realize it and go back to seeing myself from above.

Be easy with no expectations. Guess that's how to view life huh :)

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Quote Bart: " Caution: Either channeling or meditating for more than about one hour will result in headaches the next day because of a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain which is in the sleep mode while the body is awake."

Not true regarding meditation.... Meditation is not putting the body in sleep mode. I know Buddhist Monks/Nuns who meditate for hours and never complain of headaches. Looks like Bart: doesn't know many Buddhist, lol.

I have no knowledge of channeling, never heard of it before so I can't comment on it.

I remember in retreat meditating for 12 hours a day for days on end - no headache. I often sit for 90 minutes or 2 hours, and in posture that becomes somewhat uncomfortable, but the basic idea is peace of mind regardless of the body sensations. If a person does happen to get a headache, then they may be at peace with that and after a time it will pass. Of course the retreat, being rigorous and sticking to the pure meditation of mindfulness (as outlined in the satipatthana sutta). Falling asleep is different to meditation, and we sit upright mostly to prevent people nodding off and snoring away in the hall.

In this way of meditation as a formal practice there isn't any effort to silence the mind. One starts with anapanasati, which is 'observe breath'. One will soon recognise just how noisy the mind is, but persist in observing breath. On retreats the mind settles down quite a lot in the first three days. Practitioners become stiller in their physical and mental poise. If we transfer this into say 30 hours, a person practicing for 1/2 hour might expect a fair degree of quietude within 2 or 3 months. Personally I suggest 30 minutes as a bare, bare minimum - at least 45 minutes for sitting practice. I find a one hour session is better and it is that last 15 minutes that really tests the equanimity.

No headaches, so no worries about that.