Trouble with silencing my mind while meditating...

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by markings

I see that all the talk is about the "busy mind". When I argue for visible results then it is for results in the real world of living and doing.
For me it is not acceptable to meditate for years and see no change in terms of better relationships, improved efficiency, in short in the overall better functioning in this worldly life. If such results do show then we wouldn't care about the chattering mind, would we? But they apparently don't show, or are considered so insignificant that they are not even worth mentioning.

This is a contradiction of the 'all is connected' principle. If meditation works then it must have an effect on our everyday life, and IMO it is entirely justified that such effects must show up within a reasonably short period of time.

Well markings has spoken, hasn't he!?

Cowboys make way.

As I said in my prior posts, patience, commitment, sincerity, and practical application of practices including meditation (not distraction, meditation) are tried and tested methods throughout the centuries.

Good meditation, "bad" meditation - these are all exercises that are working in the spiritual mode. If one is using the method I described above, even a sit which seems messy, is a useful session, and is cultivating spiritual nourishment in the seeker.

Despite your demands on what the world should do, and how spirituality should work, I will defer to the many great teachers and adepts of this sphere.

I for one am very grateful, and fortunate, I was not given "advice" as you have proposed in terms of timelines and expectations, or distraction techniques.

Agree with you that meditation is a by product of a greater life wish for greater happiness and peace, and it is important and valuable when this is integrated, but this is a life long's work with many achievements in between.

Persistence and faith, it works.

shiningstars

Originally Posted by shiningstars

Well markings has spoken, hasn't he!?

Cowboys make way.

As I said in my prior posts, patience, commitment, sincerity, and practical application of practices including meditation (not distraction, meditation) are tried and tested methods throughout the centuries.

Good meditation, "bad" meditation - these are all exercises that are working in the spiritual mode. If one is using the method I described above, even a sit which seems messy, is a useful session, and is cultivating spiritual nourishment in the seeker.

Despite your demands on what the world should do, and how spirituality should work, I will defer to the many great teachers and adepts of this sphere.

I for one am very grateful, and fortunate, I was not given "advice" as you have proposed in terms of timelines and expectations, or distraction techniques.

Agree with you that meditation is a by product of a greater life wish for greater happiness and peace, and it is important and valuable when this is integrated, but this is a life long's work with many achievements in between.

Persistence and faith, it works.

shiningstars

James: I have found that when I have reason enough, making the transition into the meditative state is not difficult but i practice daily. Sometimes meditation feels like almost going to sleep but not quite. Sort of like we are sleeping but something happened and we know it. I like to, just for fun, try to be aware of my transition to sleep every night. When I lay down I try as hard as I can to be aware of what is happening to me. I know that the sleep state and the meditative state are not the same but they are closely related. I remain convinced that one day I will go to meditation instead of to sleep. imagine that! My friend Bartholomew laughs at me but I don't mind. Most of the time I awake in the morning laughing at myself for being foolish but each night I try again. This is a fun exercise though. As I said when a serious reason arises I never have any trouble popping into a meditative state. I believe that we are pretty much alike in this. The only thing that I reject is using artificial means to enter because these will take a person to the astral plane only, no higher. We have to choose.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

James: I have found that when I have reason enough, making the transition into the meditative state is not difficult but i practice daily. Sometimes meditation feels like almost going to sleep but not quite. Sort of like we are sleeping but something happened and we know it. I like to, just for fun, try to be aware of my transition to sleep every night. When I lay down I try as hard as I can to be aware of what is happening to me. I know that the sleep state and the meditative state are not the same but they are closely related. I remain convinced that one day I will go to meditation instead of to sleep. imagine that! My friend Bartholomew laughs at me but I don't mind. Most of the time I awake in the morning laughing at myself for being foolish but each night I try again. This is a fun exercise though. As I said when a serious reason arises I never have any trouble popping into a meditative state. I believe that we are pretty much alike in this. The only thing that I reject is using artificial means to enter because these will take a person to the astral plane only, no higher. We have to choose.

I like that bit - and waking up laughing - how beautiful, James!

Are you saying that you think I can also move into a meditative state relatively easily? If you are, that's interesting I've never really thought that, but I think it might be true. When I first had some very interesting experiences, I remember unpeeling, like an onion. And then there was silence. I think I didn't understand it and got scared back then and went back to the clamor, but I recall.

I perhaps find it easy to move into meditative awareness when I am alone - my skills have diminished somewhat

Re: "artificial means" I was not brought up with any techniques - just simple sitting, simple awareness of, it's boring perhaps but powerfully strong in a spiritual sense.

The tradition I am familiar with, Buddhism, is not interested in the astral realm - I also have little familiarity with it.

It was only until I came across this forum that I realized there are so many people who equate the "interesting" stuff with spirituality - I've always really enjoyed Truth/Dharma and find it very nourishing to my own soul/spirit. For that I am grateful.

shiningstars

[markings]

Originally Posted by shiningstars

As I said in my prior posts, patience, commitment, sincerity, and practical application of practices including meditation (not distraction, meditation) are tried and tested methods throughout the centuries.

If the method is tried and tested should you not be able to predict a likely result within an approximate time frame and the conditions necessary to achieve that, beyond just saying persistence and faith?

If I invest between 5% to 10% of the free time I have am I wrong to ask what will I can I out of this?

Originally Posted by shiningstars

I like that bit - and waking up laughing - how beautiful, James!

Are you saying that you think I can also move into a meditative state relatively easily? If you are, that's interesting I've never really thought that, but I think it might be true. When I first had some very interesting experiences, I remember unpeeling, like an onion. And then there was silence. I think I didn't understand it and got scared back then and went back to the clamor, but I recall.

I perhaps find it easy to move into meditative awareness when I am alone - my skills have diminished somewhat

Re: "artificial means" I was not brought up with any techniques - just simple sitting, simple awareness of, it's boring perhaps but powerfully strong in a spiritual sense.

The tradition I am familiar with, Buddhism, is not interested in the astral realm - I also have little familiarity with it.

It was only until I came across this forum that I realized there are so many people who equate the "interesting" stuff with spirituality - I've always really enjoyed Truth/Dharma and find it very nourishing to my own soul/spirit. For that I am grateful.

shiningstars

Are you saying that you think I can also move into a meditative state relatively easily?It's easy for any of us to do. Sleep is normally lower than waking consciousness. Sleep with a lucid dream is higher than waking consciousness. Waking consciousness is the base line. Meditation is higher than normal consciousness. Meditation is not always about spiritual things. A scientist or a business person is in a meditative state when he/she is developing an idea. There is very little difference between these two examples and the mystic who is sitting in the lotus position. Yes. I believe that you can enter a meditative state quite easily. If you are, that's interesting I've never really thought that, but I think it might be true. When I first had some very interesting experiences, I remember unpeeling, like an onion. And then there was silence. I think I didn't understand it and got scared back then and went back to the clamor, but I recall.The word "clamor" caught my attention. The person who can sit quietly among others who are being loud and uncouth, retaining his/her balance and poise, is meditating. So.... do not make the mistake of considering meditation as being only about what it is commonly defined as being. This is important because once we realize this we suddenly find that we already know how to meditate except that we were doing it for other reasons/objectives. It is easy then to take the next step (of the Buddha).

I perhaps find it easy to move into meditative awareness when I am alone - my skills have diminished somewhat When we are used to a thing we tend to not notice it so much. It is this way with meditation. The adept can enter the desired state and attract to him/herself all the power that is needed for the task at hand very quickly and easily. It will be this way for us all. We were all beginners. We will all be masters.

Re: "artificial means" I was not brought up with any techniques - just simple sitting, simple awareness of, it's boring perhaps but powerfully strong in a spiritual sense.Those who provoke meditation by using mushrooms and other natural plant extracts or by using man made chemicals do enter the meditative state but they go only to the astral because their minds are not functioning normally. If the object is to go to the astral then this is OK. If our object is to go to the realm of human souls or above though our bodies must be cleansed and purified first. The reason for this is because the body is a very powerful influence that seeks dominance. It will not easily let us leave it.

The tradition I am familiar with, Buddhism, is not interested in the astral realm - I also have little familiarity with it.

It was only until I came across this forum that I realized there are so many people who equate the "interesting" stuff with spirituality - I've always really enjoyed Truth/Dharma and find it very nourishing to my own soul/spirit. For that I am grateful.It is interesting and fun too. There is no reason why we have to be serious all the time. The novice will not understand this, yet. After they find their own power though, they can relax and find variations, methods, of wielding it. Many of our spiritual masters are quick to laugh. There is one that I know personally who had a lifetime as the historical figure Pythagoris. I have channeled this man. In that lifetime he was well known for his jokes and playing tricks on others. I felt all of this as I was with him in a spiritual connection.

shiningstars[/quote]


I hope my comments are well received. James

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

I hope my comments are well received. James

James/bartholomew,

They are extremely well received, and there is much synchronicity/recognition from here. Thank you for this exchange, I deeply appreciate it.

Originally Posted by bartholomew

It is interesting and fun too. There is no reason why we have to be serious all the time. The novice will not understand this, yet. After they find their own power though, they can relax and find variations, methods, of wielding it. Many of our spiritual masters are quick to laugh. There is one that I know personally who had a lifetime as the historical figure Pythagoris. I have channeled this man. In that lifetime he was well known for his jokes and playing tricks on others. I felt all of this as I was with him in a spiritual connection.

Yes, laughter, smiles is a very common theme, I believe. And yes, I agree: it is interesting and fun too - mm, just not so obvious. Indeed, yes. Thank you.

shiningstars

Originally Posted by shiningstars

James/bartholomew,

They are extremely well received, and there is much synchronicity/recognition from here. Thank you for this exchange, I deeply appreciate it.



Yes, laughter, smiles is a very common theme, I believe. And yes, I agree: it is interesting and fun too - mm, just not so obvious. Indeed, yes. Thank you.

shiningstars

James: Last comment. Meditation is not about the subconscious. It is about the super conscious. In truth, there is nothing "sub" about being in communion with our souls.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

James: Last comment. Meditation is not about the subconscious. It is about the super conscious. In truth, there is nothing "sub" about being in communion with our souls.

Thank you James.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

James: Last comment. Meditation is not about the subconscious. It is about the super conscious. In truth, there is nothing "sub" about being in communion with our souls.

What do you see as the relationship between meditation and the common topics on these forums e.g. chakras, channelling, etc.

Also, on another thread, one talks about feelings being in sync with one's Spirit/Soul, and yet you talk often of the mental plane - may I ask how you see this relationship, and how you define the mental plane?

If you prefer not to comment, that is fine, I am just curious.

shiningstars

Originally Posted by shiningstars

What do you see as the relationship between meditation and the common topics on these forums e.g. chakras, channelling, etc.

Also, on another thread, one talks about feelings being in sync with one's Spirit/Soul, and yet you talk often of the mental plane - may I ask how you see this relationship, and how you define the mental plane?

If you prefer not to comment, that is fine, I am just curious.

shiningstars

Of course we may speak of and discuss these topics without entering a meditative state but often we do. I often do. It feels like shifting gears in a car. Have you had this experience? Speaking normally one moment and then some sort of a connection is made, a feeling of enablement comes upon us and information begins to flow seemingly all by itself? So we can speak normally about chakras or channeling. We can purposefully enter a meditative state and channel information about chakras or channeling or we may mix the two together, a little of each. It is helpful to remember here that the practiced person may enter a deep meditation by taking only one breath. The change can happen in an instant. Most of us have to practice for a couple of years first... but we all have it in us. There is nothing really foreign or exotic about it.

Preachers often begin speaking and then shift up to meditation. Later they will say the "spirit of the Lord" was with me. I have heard them speaking really fact trying to keep up with the flow coming at them. Just another facet of being human.

May we recap the basics? We are familiar with the physical plane which is of three parts generally. Solids, liquids and gases. The physical plane is "informed"by the ethereal plane. This is the subtle copy of the physical. It is made of etheric matter. We can often see and feel this because it is so very close to the physical in vibratory quality. Next up is the astral emotional. It is made of astral emotional matter. This is a very necessary component of the Earth scheme because it gives life to the vegetable, animal and human kingdoms. We all have ready access to this plane of energies. We very easily create throughtforms on this plane. Next up is the mental plane. It is comprised of mental matter. Animals and humans have access but in varying degrees. When we think in everyday terms we are operating in the lower of the mental subplanes. When we use our abstract minds we are at the high end. We are capable of making thoughtforms in the mental plane which will be reflected in the astral too. We humans have the beginnings of access to planes which are higher. One of these is commonly called the divine. Many humans have working access here but most of us are only beginning to function on it. Higher than the divine is the atmic. Here, likewise, a few humans, masters, have working access.

We may be in sync with our souls on either the ethereal, the astral or the mental and in various of the subplanes of each. When we pray fervently in an emotional way we are building an astral plane copy of that prayer and sending it to God (or to whoever we prayed to). We can do this also on the mental. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Those who claim to be in sync with their souls really are but not necessarily on the high end of the mental. If we contact our soul on the astral we encounter mostly just a pre recorded message or idea from our soul. Perhaps an answer to a prayer which has been left there for us. But.... if we contact our souls on the high mental plane we now are able to have a present tense meeting. In channeling this means questions can be asked and answers will be given. This is a very inadequate answer. There is so much more to it.

Visualize all of these planes as being concentric circles to the Earth and it begins to make ready sense. For instance we all know about the solid Earth and water and the layered atmosphere above. The subtle planes all begin at the center of the Earth but each is of greater size. We therefore find, after some study, that the lower part of the mental plane is about 22,000 miles from the surface of the Earth. You see? We have everything we need right here in our celestial neighborhood. Herein is a hint about the workings of astrology too.

Our souls are made of and live in the higher subplanes of the mental plane. If we want to merge our brain consciousnesses with them we have to go to where they are. This explains the need for a certain meditative practice over another.

Note: Our guides commonly communicate with us through the astral plane. They do this because they know we are capable of finding their messages which have tangible forms. They create a "form" of astral matter and leave it where we will find it even if we are in an emotional state. Have you seen this happen? We also create on the astral. Every time we get mad and yell in frustration we are making astral plane copies of the experience. They will stay there forever until either a knowing soul or the astral plane housekeeping staff cleans them up. Here is refer to the many little worker spirits that exist.

Creation is what we are about. We create in the physical as everyone knows. We gain access to the various subtle planes and work on them knowlingly or unknowlingly. At a certain point we become adept enough to create on a plane. A master soul has a greater ability. He or she can create on higher planes than we can. This is something which is part and parcel of spiritual growth. It is not the reason for growth but it is a secondary result.

The next part is personal. The physical James has long been on the mental plane in most matters. At the high end of this plane our souls normally operate. As we age we trend closer to our souls. We come to know them as very personal beings. When we are thus trained we find that entering the meditative or channeling state is much easier because we have come to so much closer to it in our everyday waking awareness. It is not difficult in a technical sense. When speaking of these things there is no way to avoid mentioning a definite truth. As we live lifetimes after long lifetimes we grow spiritually. That is our souls grow spiritually as a result of the physical lives. After a certain point in evolution the physical body and personality become aware of the soul. Now there is a waking union between the two. These people can enter a fully conscious state of communion with their souls in just an instant of time. This is not something which can be provoked by artificial means. Most people contact their souls through the astral plane only. There is nothing wrong with this. In matters of spiritually there are no rights and wrongs. We all do what we can do according to our abilities which are measures of the growth of our souls. I had to say this to be clear in my response. We may ask "how do we know if we are speaking with our souls on the mental or on the astral"? It is OK to be careful and cautious with this. One very good way to determine this is by examining our auras. In the ethereal version of our bodies the tale is told. It is there for any and all with vision to see. This is the surest dependable method that I can mention here.

Caution: Either channeling or meditating for more than about one hour will result in headaches the next day because of a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain which is in the sleep mode while the body is awake. Aviators call this high altitude sickness. People who drink too much call it a hangover. We can have the same complaint. One time I channeled for four hours straight. The next day I had terrible headaches. Be careful with any kind of spiritual practice. Moderate it. Live in the real world too. Laugh and love and be normal.

Once again I got long winded.