Saami People of Norway, Finland and Sweden and Joiking

[sentient]

Thank you WhiteWarrior for your replies, always good to know where people are like ‘coming from’.

There certainly are knowledgeable people on this forum one can learn from, but when it comes to actual teachers of the so called “shamanic journeying” on this thread, the original poster’s mentioned Graham Nicholls - to me sounded most straight forward, credible, authentic and honest, plus he doesn’t pretend to be a shaman or any other spiritual teacher.
He seemed to have had a natural talent to start with, which he later honed in on, explored and developed.

But that is not “Core Shamanism” - more like a ‘side door’, which can easily become badly distorted.
The Core to my knowledge is found in the Axis Mundi, … where stillness and movement come together, time and timelessness, oneness and multiplicity etc. etc. etc. which is an awareness shift where real shamanic spiritual visions & awakening experiences into nonduality takes place and also initiation.



It has been said, that all the shamans of the old were initiated by the Eagle. I would say Thunderbird/Eagle since ancestors were “Kokko” worshippers.
The Eagle comes with an ‘invitation’:



But it is not an eagle as such, nor a cloud, but like a ‘force-field’.
If one declines ‘Eagle’s invitation’ – that is not too good.
If one accepts – the Thunderbird swallows one up - which is the ‘shamanic-death-experience’ and then spits one back into the body - ‘rearranged’.
One also gets a gift, like a Power Animal, which is like an energetic function between the Source and manifest reality, which also acts like an ‘extra soul’ component for the shaman.
Since the shaman had already ‘died’ to the local “I am” and awakened to the Source “I AM” – so to speak, there is trust and protection to go into trances.

That is what I’ve learned anyways …

[sentient]

The mythical giant Eagle/Thunderbird is Kokko (but the link doesn't work):

There are Saami birds called “vaaka, vuokko or vuohko and vuoyu”, but I do not know if they mean the same thing or mean something else; - point to some other function (?)

*

Edited to add this bit I found:
From
https://www.isars.org/shaman_pdf/Sha...1994_Retro.pdf

The shaman himself is often conceived as taking on the forms of beasts. Olsen (1910: 32) records that the noaidi gadze teach the shaman to take on the shape of wolves and bears, as well as casting the form on others.
15 Itkonen (1946: 120) records the tale of Päiviö from Peltovuoma, who is supposed to have swum as a pike to heal the king of Sweden, and returned as a whale, narrowly avoiding being caught in a net on his return.
Hultkrantz notes that the entire set of actions necessary to retrieve a soul from the underworld seems to have been carried out by the shaman’s assistant spirits, rather than by him. One source says that the 15 In later folk beliefs, the most able shamans were held to be those that could fly as a bird; the next most able could take on the forms of beasts whilst in trance; the least able could use only the power of words, or objects, in their sorcery (Itkonen 1946: 113–120).

The bird form that the shaman took on was called kuoddâlv (from kŭĕd’ded, ‘carry’), ‘griffon’. The vaakalintu, ‘griffon bird’, that the Mistress of Pohjola turns herself into in Finnish myth (Kuusi et al. 1977: no. 12) is clearly of the same sort; notice that the word vaaka is cognate with Lappish vuokko (Toivonen 1931: 432), indicating that the kuoddâlv, into which the Lapp shaman turns himself, is probably to be regarded as identical with vuokko, again reaffirming the close connexion between the shaman and his helping spirits.

So no, the meaning is not the same. And this is more like occult 'sorcery', not shamanic spirituality.

[WhiteWarrior]

Intriguing. The eagle is my totem animal and has been for a long time. I had a vision once where I was one, also a long time ago now. Flying, hunting. The view from above was amazing, as was the feeling of the wind under my wings and the exhaliriating feeling of hurling downward to catch a prey, and the pride of bringing home fresh meat to my mate. I can still see the barren stony landscape and the ruins on which we had our nest.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior

Intriguing. The eagle is my totem animal and has been for a long time.

That was a lovely vision WhiteWarrior.

But even if you did find the eagle story I narrated intriguing, please don’t take it as a gospel, as ‘invitations from Spirit’ can and do take many forms.

If the eagle is a prominent feature or symbol ‘living’ in your subconscious, the question for you is – how come? Where did it or that connection come from, originate? What do you understand/see a totem animal to be and/or to mean?

Eagle is and has been a sacred animal symbol for a lot of people and in general, I guess, eagles have been many shamans’ animal-spirit-helpers.

*

For example ...
If I asked (in general) anybody from my ethnic group (& group thinking) to tell the creation story of the Cosmic/World Egg, they would probably tell “the myth of the world being created from the fragments of an egg laid by a goldeneye (duck) on the knee of Ilmatar, goddess of the air”.

I could never relate to that story, but when relatives gifted me a piece of jewellery:
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/i...1cdb57fa28.jpg

The large bird is occasionally referred to as 'The Eagle', but the official name is 'The wild duck of Uhtua'. The inspiration for the pendant comes from archaeological findings in the region of Uhtua in Karelia in modern day Russia, dating back to the era of the Crusades.

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/i...1cdb57fa28.jpg

So, when I then learned that our specific creation story is that of the “Kokko/Eagle/Thunderbird” & not a duck, only then did the creation story make sense bringing those jigsaw puzzle pieces of meanings and associations together for me.

[WhiteWarrior]

Eagles live in my country, I see them at times at the family's cabin and they are majestic. So does many other birds. Totems and other Native American words and concepts came into my life with 'Silver Arrow', a comic book featuring the wild west as seen from the NA side, and other wild west books like Tex Willer. Hey, I was six, I read what was bought for me and this was many decades before anime, DC and Marvel overflowed the shelves.

Comics aside, my country has had a number of very good wilderness writers that told stories as the animals experienced them. Those were the first books available to me after comic books. And I was an avid reader of Jack London too.

Incidentally, and probably as a result of this thread, I dreamed of an eagle last night. I was walking through a forested area, passed by a derelict hut and heard an unexpected sound from the second floor. There I found an eagle, it was tangled into a discarded net. I freed it but it didn't fly away.

By the way, your links dont work. "Direct image access denied, please go to worthpoint.com to view images."

[sentient]

When it comes to the word “totem” – it is just that our rather loose and broad Western use of the term leaves me wondering what it is we are actually talking about.
Do we really think we are speaking Amerind lingo there and seeing reality from their perspective?

Realistically and in a narrow sense of the word – where in the world are traditional totemic kinship systems still practiced? Australia yes, in the remote communities, where it still is a crime to marry into the wrong skin-group (totem), where custodians still perform rites and rituals to ensure the survival of their totemic kin (animals). And if ‘you’ are an outsider coming in, a skin-group totem will be assigned to you so that you can become a functioning part of that kinship system/community.

But for the rest of us and now talking about Fennoscandia here and the Saami, we need to go back and back and back to the old hunting culture – its worldview, its myths, its rituals and associations, as not to appropriate another culture or reconstruct in a new age way, but rather remember it.

In Finland we are said to have had 2 major hunting clans, the bear and the moose with totemic associations, plus smaller; - other animal clans. It was the hunter’s responsibility to do the proper rites and rituals sending their souls back up to the heavens to ensure their consequent return.
(The Ob-Ugrian picture I posted earlier has the bear-skull-tree in it, used for this purpose).

Among the Skolt Saami, we also have the descendants of the bear. Were/are they also descendants of the swan, not sure.
The rest of the Saami ….?

Now this ‘OBE shamanic journeying’ does provide an avenue to explore what is still there of the old – left in the collective subconscious about it. But with these OBE-journeys, one always needs to check if there is an answering image in real reality matching that which one had witnessed, otherwise the whole thing just turns into some weird new age fantasy.

But WhiteWarrior, I do not want to discourage you here. Your dream was really interesting and your eagle-connection worth for you to explore further what it is by asking the Universe or Spirit to show you: What is it?

P.S. And the link to the piece of jewelry, which was just relatives way of saying: “Out in the world, remember where you came from, who you are”.
https://www.rubylane.com/item/191370...ua-Bronze-Bird

[sentient]

Good info about the Saami @ the Saami blog:
https://saamiblog.blogspot.com/2007/

Something that caught my eye:
“Prehistoric Genetic Link of the Amazigh and Saami”
Well, that was the old mitochondrial DNA, Euro hunter-gatherer connection U5 b1 b1 - whatnot …
Been there - done that, and as much I seriously do love Tinariwen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vACZ...nnel=Tinariwen

… the reality is. Compared to Amazigh vs. Tlingit, Skolt Saami comes as 86% Tlingit & 14% Amazigh (I got 6% less Tlingit.)

[sentient]

I do enjoy these interviews with “Jungle Svonni”.

Spending 6 years in the Amazon:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Zv6Gk774rTM

Jungle Svonni (Sami Shaman) Full Interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soOh...eExpedition s

Cannot blame him for moving to Peru to learn from the shamans there, but I am still surprised at the loss of the culture in Sweden and Norway.

I never looked for any Shamans nor spiritual teachers abroad, but due to circumstances, it just so happened that when I met the first Aboriginal Elder – within the first minutes – we *shifted* into “One Spirit” (as they described it) – “a silent oneness” (nondual) communication, something which I had learned from gran since early childhood, so I felt as if we had known each other ‘since eternity’ & that got me hooked to become involved for over 20 years.

“Looking for Elders” and expecting or feeling entitled to receive teachings can actually end up the (new age) seeker becoming the butt of a practical joke or much worse.

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by sentient

There are Saami birds called “vaaka, vuokko or vuohko and vuoyu”, but I do not know if they mean the same thing or mean something else; - point to some other function (?)

Here is a section from your pdf link from post #32...Copied from page 125 of your pdf under the chapter title of "The Shamanic Séance in the Historia Norwegiae"...
You probably already seen it but I figured it won't hurt to bring it to your attention if it can help in your investigation...

(a) Saiva leddie, ‘supernatural bird’, apart from being sent to the saiva
olmai, also showed the shaman his way during the trance journey; the
shaman also had a hideous bird called vurnes lodde or vuokko which
would be sent against rival shamans: it is probably identical with the
saiva leddie;

...Peace...

[sentient]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

Here is a section from your pdf link from post #32...Copied from page 125 of your pdf under the chapter title of "The Shamanic Séance in the Historia Norwegiae"...
You probably already seen it but I figured it won't hurt to bring it to your attention if it can help in your investigation...

With a one-track mind, getting so caught up in about the question how the Western Saami are doing, I am afraid I’m missing noticing stuff.
You are always so damn good and wise at spotting and pointing things out!


No two shamans were/are alike, let alone counting regional differences of beliefs and practices.

“a hideous bird called vurnes lodde or vuokko which would be sent against rival shamans”.
From Kalevala, here I guess, we have got vurnes lodde or vuokko in action (?)
"The Defense of the Sampo" painting:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vi...20170620191350

The sender of that bird was a sorcerer but. There is a difference. And in stories about it, that bird can come in many forms.
I would differentiate between shaman’s “Saiva leddie” and sorcerer’s “vurnes lodde” though ….

And talking about the different kind of people and their abilities, which were detected within the “shamanic world”:

Sami Kvad (Runic) Chanting
As told in Kalevala, the accomplishments of the “Noitat or Tietajat”, i.e. shaman or famous sorceress frequently were achieved with their wisdom, songs and runic spells and not with the sword (Friis, 1871). The following 12th song from Kalevala V, 395 – 402 supports that the Sami earlier used ”Kvad” singing:
”Then he looked into the house,
Peered in from his hidden corner:
Saw the house was full of adepts,
Benches crowded with enchanters,
Side walls lined with Hiisi's harpers,
Doorway jammed with sorcerers;
On the back bench sat the seers,
Wizards in the chimney corner.
They were chanting Lapland runos,
Howling out the hymns of Hiisi.”

Except for a kvad about the bear hunt and a hero-song about "the sons of the sun" called “Bæive Barnek”, these Kvads disappeared with christianisation. Source: ”Lappisk mythologi, eventyr og folkesagn” av Friis, 1871. Another Sami Kvad song that have been preserved is "Guttavuorok" about one that can transform himself into 6 different characters (Source: En sommer i Finnmarken…, Friis, 1871).

Many Viena Karelian ancestors were “back bag traders” to Finland and to Saami-land:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EyO2YpMgk...cannen0004.jpg

… and many of them were also Rune singers. I assume that piece of Rune poem was a description of a Saami-land visit he had done. Had to laugh at the “Doorway jammed with sorcerers” ... yeah, seen one, once, who also stayed by the doorway, eyeballing the situation inside the house, but not coming or joining in … a weird vibe fellow he was.