Can reincarnation be real

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi skyman, still don't buy it ---just words...moving this to the Science and Spirituality area.

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by skyman

To me, correct part of science and correct part of spiritually can't contradict.
(ok, I insist on this sentence, I don't consider science and spirituality as different worlds)

You may not see them as different but consider this. Spirituality relates to individuals whereas science does not - it's empirical, non-personal. It has nothing to do with "different worlds". Both occur in the same world.

This is pertinent to the topic at hand. It's a UVA Division of Perceptual Studies faculty presentation and I bookmarked it at the point of Dr. Tucker's presentation. The account of James Leininger is particularly interesting. https://youtu.be/ZoqNe-U53wA?list=PL...fkDSVty&t=3820

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by skyman

Weight of soul is 20 grams, if correct, ( and this can be checked), this would be the strongest evidence so far , in favor of reincarnation.

From Wikipedia:

The 21 grams experiment refers to a scientific study published in 1907 by Duncan MacDougall, a physician from Haverhill, Massachusetts. MacDougall hypothesized that souls have physical weight, and attempted to measure the mass lost by a human when the soul departed the body. MacDougall attempted to measure the mass change of six patients at the moment of death. One of the six subjects lost three-quarters of an ounce (21.3 grams).

A study based on six subjects with one result is hardly conclusive. And this experiment has never been successfully repeated.

And why would this be the strongest evidence so far for reincarnation? The work of Ian Stevenson is far more convincing.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by bobjob

Spirituality relates to individuals whereas science does not - it's empirical, non-personal. It has nothing to do with "different worlds". Both occur in the same world.

Or we could say that current science is concerned with the physical dimension whereas spirituality is concerned with the non-physical dimensions.

But at some point science will have to accept and investigate the non-physical dimensions in order to really understand the physical. Otherwise science is only seeing half the picture.

And in theory science is empirical and non-personal but in practice much of today's science is driven by personal beliefs. If a scientist does not believe in the Soul then any theory which includes a human Soul gets rejected.

And it could be argued that there are spiritual sciences. For example, pranayama. If people do certain breathing practices according to set guidelines then they should all experience particular spiritual outcomes.

But yes, currently spirituality and science are separate but at some point they will overlap, and that overlap will occur when science finally begins to investigate the real nature of Consciousness.

Peace

it (significantly high weight of the soul) would be the strongest evidence for reincarnation, because it suggests that soul may be more than electric of body, and it may be going elsewhere, ..and with the same logic one would suspect that when life is created some soul of significant weight might be coming from somewhere (else). Soul comes when life is created, soul leaves when life ends from/to somewhere else,..which is almost reincarnation, except that we don't have recycling of the same soul in this case by default.

But if 20 gram claim is wrong, then a big evidence (in favor of reincarnation) is lost.
Ok, it should be repeatable experiment, and I'm sure many others must have tested it until now. But I don't trust wikipedia on critical topics. It is a great source created by humanity on almost every topic, except for critical topics. You can't edit those subjects.
Examples: 9/11, titanic,. lots of other such topics.
There are some obvious lies repeated everywhere, on media, books, conferences, ..everything mainstream, and if you are against those lies, you would become conspiracy theorist automatically... and you may lose your license, title, life, job, etc. But things are changing.
...........
There are "nonphysical" dimensions in physics as well.
In string theory (one of the best) there are 6 hidden dimensions (in addition to 3+1 space-time).
Physical dimensions are meausered in meters, time dimension is measured in seconds,
and I don't know how calabi-yau dimensions are measured.
considering that sizes of strings are very small, I suspect they may be measured with meters as well.

Originally Posted by skyman

it (significantly high weight of the soul) would be the strongest evidence for reincarnation, because it suggests that soul may be more than electric of body, and it may be going elsewhere

Why would Soul be physical? Grams or Amps it's all the same, physical. E=MC2.

If soul is energy and its weight comes from E=mc2, then E must be very big here when m is 20 grams.
.......
Maybe there is some extra attaction (force) between the Earth and a living person, and it appears as weight but it is not actually gravity coming from the mass of the soul ?: I don't know.
.....
If a soul is 20 grams, whatever the reason, this would be very interesting by itself.
People may argue by saying, it can't possibly be true,..but I instead prefer to see that someone makes an experiment by euthanizing a frog, and posts a video of it.

Originally Posted by skyman

If soul is energy and its weight comes from E=mc2, then E must be very big here when m is 20 grams.

Again, why would Soul be physical? We are talking the transcendent, not the imminent, that which transcends physical reality. The spiritual i.e. the non-physical.

I don't know what is supposed to be counted as physical.

Math is not physical because it is abstract. But we can see manifestations of it in real life.

Is data physical: it is not matter or energy, or a force etc. It is represented by physical stuff, but we are looking at some mathematical/abstract information hidden in it.

Is shadow physical: again it is not matter or energy, or force/field. We can't pick it up and put it inside a box.

Soul can be the same, it can be some harmony, some symmetry , some activity of a very physical thing, It can be as physical as data, information, shadow. ..If it has weight, then suddenly it sounds more physical.